Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

C meeting is over. C23 added:

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 363 posts

Re: C meeting is over. C23 added:

#231

Post by mprovost »

10x-dev wrote: post #32
mungoman2 wrote: post #2

I can't tell if this is serious. Surely if you're still using C now it's for legacy reasons. And if using it for legacy reasons you are likely stuck using an old C standard. So who will use C23?

C is the best choice if you want all of: small (both language and binaries), fast (both compiler and binaries), obvious (no/minimal complex magic), close to the metal, with excellent debugging support, portability and integrations. No other language has been battle tested for longer and more extensively than C. Your kernels, OSes, drivers, databases, web servers and compilers are written in C. If some of these featur…

C certainly has been battle tested but I wouldn't say that it passed with flying colours. Every one of the examples that you cite has had bugs/crashes/vulnerabilities that would have been avoided with newer languages.

Re: C meeting is over. C23 added:

#232

Post by throwaway3neu94 »

saagarjha wrote: post #29
Svetlitski wrote: post #8

“`typeof` is standard” Hallelujah, after only five decades generic, type-safe macros which evaluate their arguments exactly once will finally be possible with standards-compliant C.

How so? You'd also need statement expressions for most of them.

No, you can use do{}while(0) usually. You only need statement expressions if you want it to evaluate to a value as well.

Re: C meeting is over. C23 added:

#233

Post by pjmlp »

uecker wrote: post #223
pjmlp wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern C compilers are written in C++. So much for C's simplicity in writing compilers.

There are plenty of C compilers written in C. Large compiler suites for C/C++ are usually written in C++. But as a contributor to GCC, I can say that large parts of the code still look very much like C.

Plenty of compilers... right.

If you cannot compile GCC with a C compiler, it isn't C.

Re: C meeting is over. C23 added:

#234

Post by pjmlp »

zabzonk wrote: post #216
pjmlp wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of users doesn't change the fact of the tooling quality, but no wonder, UNIX folks tend to only take free beer, so what do they know about fine wine.

I've read the Eiffel books, and tried to use the Eifell tools, on Windows - a horrid experience. I am not a "UNIX folk" and I can't imagine what comparing UNIX and Eifell has to do with anything. It is basically an unuseable programming language and toolset, promoted by an egomaniac with a grudge against C++. If you disagree, please provide a link to something medium sized and useful written in Eifel.

Useful to whom?

To you or the companies that keep Eiffel Software in business for 30 years?

Re: C meeting is over. C23 added:

#235

Post by pjmlp »

Koshkin wrote: post #210
pjmlp wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither, unless we are speaking of kernel and drivers kind of systems programming, in which case I would pick Rust. For anything else, a language with automatic memory management.

I wish D was more widely used, as it seems to be good as a systems language, too.

Me too, unfortunately the lack of focus has allowed the competition to step in, so at this point it is hard to tell what would be the killer application that can make it take off.

Re: C meeting is over. C23 added:

#237

Post by pjmlp »

nec4b wrote: post #222
pjmlp wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UNIX is to C like the Web is to JavaScript. JavaScript also runs outside of the browser nowadays, so what.

I don't know what are you trying to say? How does this follow from the parent post?

It follows that the Web made JavaScript unavoidable, then nodejs made it available everywhere else.

Likewise UNIX made C unavoidable in systems programming for timesharing servers, eventually like JavaScript outgrew the browser, certain people wanted to run C in their microcomputers.

Re: C meeting is over. C23 added:

#238

Post by pjmlp »

nec4b wrote: post #225
Koshkin wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, UNIX is surely responsible for C becoming popular (if not its being a thing in the first place).

I'm not arguing that it is not? It's funny though how many people saw value in C but not in Algol. Maybe C has something going for it?

Free beer alongside a free beer OS, instead of paying thousands of dollars for timesharing OSes like VMS.

Re: C meeting is over. C23 added:

#239

Post by pjmlp »

nec4b wrote: post #219
pjmlp wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I claim it yet again on this very comment. Without UNIX spreading with its free beer into universities, C would have been a footnote on the history of system programming languages.

Nope in the above comment you claim something else. Here is where you claim C requires UNIX like OS: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20828974 Let me tell you, in embedded development we run C on bare metal or under RTOS. There is no UNIX in sight. And the code is portable to many CPU architectures.

A snowflake RTOS without POSIX, call me amazed.

Re: C meeting is over. C23 added:

#240

Post by pjmlp »

nec4b wrote: post #230
pjmlp wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why stuff like V-Tune exist with micro-ops profiler and pipeline debugging, maybe ARM should provide better tooling.

This tool helps as much with C (or even higher level languages) as it does with Assembly. It doesn't change the fact both languages work on the same abstract machine model.

What is C's abstract model for NEON?
Post reply on HN