Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records • Hacker News Board

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#131

Post by sokoloff » Sat, Feb 19, 2022, 1:58 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #123

GeoAtreides wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardened criminals they aren't, most of them probably are convicted for having some marijuana on them. They study doesn't say all of them are felons. And really, does it matter if they personally can't buy guns? It's the US, guns grow on trees. They probably already have a gun, gifted to them by their parents. And it's a moot point once they start organizing.

You can't (generally) legally possess a gun as a felon (even if you legally possessed it before), and it is illegal to gift a gun to a felon.

Those laws probably explains why so few criminals in the US have access to guns then, since criminals tend to closely follow the law.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#132

Post by frogperson » Sat, Feb 19, 2022, 2:11 PM UTC

A criminal record in a database forever is a punishment that isn't talked about. When someone files bankruptcy, they are only punished for 7 years then the record is dropped.

Once you are labeled a criminal, you carry that mark for life. It's easy to see how that could cause resentment and anger and lashing out.

I think there should be time limits on criminal records just like there are time limits on jail time.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#133

Post by earspider » Sat, Feb 19, 2022, 2:18 PM UTC

polski-g wrote: post #120

Analemma_ wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a new idea, it goes by the name "Ban the Box" ("the box" here meaning the "I have been convicted of a felony" checkbox on a job application) and has been implemented in a bunch of US states. The general consensus is that it doesn't really move the needle on employment rates for felons, while at the same time making employment prospects worse for black men because employers now just discard them from the a…

If employers can't discriminate on the individual level, they will discriminate on the group level.

No post body was provided.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#134

Post by blip54321 » Sat, Feb 19, 2022, 2:59 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #126

chaostheory wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In previous centuries, there were plenty of jobs with low trust requirements These still exist in the modern era, primarily in industries with high turnover like the restaurant industry, farm labor, and other unsavory industries such as meat processing.

They still exist in all sorts of industries but have almost all been offshored to capitalize on lower wages. The jobs left are largely just the ones where the finished product can't be put on a container ship for 2 months. If globalization unravels due to rising geopolitical tensions and continent spanning supply chains buckle and break we will likely be quite surprised at how much unskilled labor is suddenly in dema…

Nope. Those jobs require trustworthy people too.

If I were running a meat processing plant, and there was:

- Sexual harassment

- Racism

- Violence

- Etc.

I'd have a huge liability on my hands. Unfortunately, prison convicts would be much more likely to expose me to those types of liability. If an employee catcalls another employee, that places a lot of burden lands on the employer.

This happened largely due to progressive reforms. I'm not claiming to have any solution here, or to even have a semblance of idea of cost/benefit. People need jobs. People deserve to be safe.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#135

Post by RickJWagner » Sat, Feb 19, 2022, 3:15 PM UTC

Further, family dynamics dictate how many young males face these difficulties.

Here's where the solution lies. Strong families make the bedrock of a strong society.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#136

Post by RickJWagner » Sat, Feb 19, 2022, 3:19 PM UTC

darebak wrote: post #125

ThinkBeat wrote: post #79

Helping people with criminal records get jobs is good. Letting then vote is also a good first step. The focus should be on helping them -before- they end up with a criminal conviction of some sort on their permanent record. Sadly we are engineering society to be less and less compatible for young men and this will only get worse over time. And then these angry young men get older they beget their own angry young men.…

>Letting then vote is also a good first step. I'm always amazed that some Western countries don't let former convicts vote. In Serbia even current convicts can vote, atleast in republic level elections, not sure about local elections.

In America, unscrupulous politicians explicitly target voters by demographics and fill the airwaves with propaganda aimed at steering the vote.

This leads to situations like celebrity endorsements, where huge swaths of under-informed voters are influenced simply by messaging.

The saving grace is the 'representative' form of government, where at least some sanity can be injected into the process.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#137

Post by hogrider » Sat, Feb 19, 2022, 3:25 PM UTC

See, this is why in my ideal society the cronically criminal are put for life in gulags. This mind simply can't coexist with nirmal people in modern society.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#138

Post by elipsey » Sat, Feb 19, 2022, 5:47 PM UTC

blip54321 wrote: post #134

pydry wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They still exist in all sorts of industries but have almost all been offshored to capitalize on lower wages. The jobs left are largely just the ones where the finished product can't be put on a container ship for 2 months. If globalization unravels due to rising geopolitical tensions and continent spanning supply chains buckle and break we will likely be quite surprised at how much unskilled labor is suddenly in dema…

Nope. Those jobs require trustworthy people too. If I were running a meat processing plant, and there was: - Sexual harassment - Racism - Violence - Etc. I'd have a huge liability on my hands. Unfortunately, prison convicts would be much more likely to expose me to those types of liability. If an employee catcalls another employee, that places a lot of burden lands on the employer. This happened largely due to progre…

Yep. When I was a student I worked in a restaurant with an ex convict who described his previous job at the meat packing plant in precisely those terms. He told me it was a hard dangerous s*** job, and back of the house in the restaurant was a lot better. He said safety measures and equipment were inadequate, and some of the other guys that worked there wanted to kill him (his remarks on your other areas of concern would be ill suited to this forum).

That put things in perspective for me, because I had thought that the back of the restaurant was a hard dangerous s*** job - - in fact the hood fans and ac didn't and work, the food thermometer in my shirt pocket regularly read above 110F, and I was generally surrounded by sharp things, hot things, greasy floors and boiling oil, and the shift manager chest bumped me and screamed in my face. But for that guy it was a promotion.

That was in Texas, which is a "business friendly" state, so those progressive reforms might be more... incremental than the average hn reader might wish.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#139

Post by s1artibartfast » Sat, Feb 19, 2022, 6:41 PM UTC

micromacrofoot wrote: post #129

acrobatsunfish wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assumption is more racist in my opinion. It sounds more classist to me, but I think that's just reality. Desperate people make desperate decisions, and their pro con list is different then middle and upper class.

you might think it’s classist if you have no experience being subjected to it, it’s an incredibly pointed claim that has been used for decades… note that no one blames white “culture” when a white suprematist goes on a shooting rampage

It seems like at least part of what you are reacting to is blaming racial culture. I agree that is far too broad to be meaningful. Would you agree that part of the transgenerational cycle of poverty and crime involves family and community factors. I think this is true and spans genetic divisions. There are communities that are blighted in noneconomic ways that are difficult to address only with money.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#140

Post by chaostheory » Sat, Feb 19, 2022, 7:10 PM UTC

blip54321 wrote: post #134

pydry wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They still exist in all sorts of industries but have almost all been offshored to capitalize on lower wages. The jobs left are largely just the ones where the finished product can't be put on a container ship for 2 months. If globalization unravels due to rising geopolitical tensions and continent spanning supply chains buckle and break we will likely be quite surprised at how much unskilled labor is suddenly in dema…

Nope. Those jobs require trustworthy people too. If I were running a meat processing plant, and there was: - Sexual harassment - Racism - Violence - Etc. I'd have a huge liability on my hands. Unfortunately, prison convicts would be much more likely to expose me to those types of liability. If an employee catcalls another employee, that places a lot of burden lands on the employer. This happened largely due to progre…

The reality is that the margins are thin and it’s really hard to retain staff, so those problems are routinely swept under the rug in meat processing plants.

Maybe that would work with construction, but they also hire a lot of exconvicts due to turnover and pay.