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Scientist busts myths about how humans burn calories

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Re: Scientist busts myths about how humans burn calories

#721
post #627

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With a 10 dollar scale and an App like Lose It, it is pretty easy. They have both things with UPC codes for easy look up and standard foods, for example brown rice or salmon. I keep track and probably spend less than 5 minutes a day getting everything down. Obviously it will be difficult at a restaurant unless you want to bring a scale with you or beg the wait staff but largely they won't mind and if you're order gri…

A few years back I lost 30 lbs over the course of a year using Lose It. I didn't make any major dietary changes other than reducing total caloric intake. I found that ballpark estimating calories for restaurant food was fairly easy and close enough. I never weighed my food. I even went over my caloric budget fairly often and would just make up for it the next day. Overall, it was surprisingly simple to lose the weigh…

I dunno, me and the wife realised that certain foods are simply not worth the calorie count. Really nice curry vs Pizza? The curry wins on taste, nutrition and calories. Chocolate bar vs chocolate-chip brioche? If I'm honest, id prefer the brioche (warmed a little, with a cup of decent coffee). It also affected ingredient choices: if I'm gonna make an Indian dish like palak paneer, I find it impossible to get low-fat paneer. However I can get low-fat halloumi (lots of protein), and if it's cooked right, it works extremely well in place of paneer. Over 6 months using a calorie counting app we got to our "perfect weight" without having to go hungry. In fact, if anything, it just made me stop and think before having second helpings and overeating. So now we have "free meals" in the freezer, for when we want a lazy evening.

On the low fat halloumi vs paneer thing... We also found that low-fat soft cheese (like Philadelphia light) are amazing in soups. Simmer lentils and cubed potatoes with some spices and a can of chopped tomatoes, and just before you serve, add a large dollop of light Philadelphia and stir it all the way in. Boosts the protein content and makes for a really creamy soup. Also works great in other soups.

Re: Scientist busts myths about how humans burn calories

#722
post #592

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Did you read the article? because this specific thing is what the science that the article covers explains. tl;dr: your body burns roughly the same amount of calories regardless of exercise. However, it allocates those calories differently: if you don't spend them on exercise then it will spend them on stress (and presumably other stuff). Which totally makes sense as to why my depression & anxiety fade if I run or wo…

> your body burns roughly the same amount of calories regardless of exercise Can you explain how this makes sense? Different physical activities (running vs. sitting, for example) require different amounts of energy to perform. Calories are a unit of measurement for this energy. It sounds like you (via referencing the article) are claiming that a human will expend the same amount of energy in a given period of time r…

Even different workouts have very different calorie outcome. E.g. running at steady pace burns more than bicycle riding at steady pace at similar heart rate.

Re: Scientist busts myths about how humans burn calories

#723
post #679
post #270

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I dont know ... this one is often repeated. Including in context when completely sedentary people want to improve health (as opposed to "I want loose weight for aesthetic reasons"). > it never really worked because I’d unconsciously eat to compensate Your body is actually building muscles after exercising. It is also repairing damage caused by exercising. You actually should eat more, but more of the right stuff.

> You actually should eat more I did… the problem with me (and with, I dunno, half of humanity? ;)) was I over compensated, I ate more than I needed to build muscles and recover from exercise. So I gained weight slowly, or for long periods of time, just failed to lose the extra weigh I had through exercise alone. My problem is that exercise without calorie tracking doesn’t help me lose weight, I have to do both. And…

I think that one problém with calories focus is that it leads to exactly that. You do need to eat more, but not just more in terms of calories. If you will get soon of sugar or skice of bacon after exercising, it will provide calories but still leave you hungry needing more.

Protein like cottage cheese or something like that helps a lot. Figuring out what it is your body needs helps a lot.

Re: Scientist busts myths about how humans burn calories

#724
post #321

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I'm a bit confused by this point in the article, because it also states: > There seems to be a hard limit on how many calories our bodies can burn per day, set by how fast we can digest food and turn it into energy. He calculates that the ceiling for an 85-kilogram man would be about 4650 calories per day. Given that "regular" people clearly do not burn 4650 calories per day, and it is possible to burn 4650 calories…

> there must be a point at which exercise _does_ increase energy expenditure Of course there is. The problem is that it's much easier to eat than it is to exercise. You can eat a Big Mac in 5 minutes, and you'd have to run or bike for hours to burn those calories off. A 30 minute jog on a treadmill won't do it. Most people eat more calories than they need, and would have to exercise much more than they realize to bur…

The efficiency of our bodies (or the amount of calories in food) is astounding. Makes one think whether there is any acceptable use case for serving snacks and other high-calorie-density food.

Re: Scientist busts myths about how humans burn calories

#725
post #377
post #192

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Yes counting calories is essential, I had very similar experience (walk 10 km on the weekend ~= burn 600 kcal, then buy a 1000 kcal snack on the way back and wonder why I'm not losing weight), but still the exercise makes a big difference. Last year in march I started counting calories, recording my weight and all exercises I did and walking/biking every day. I lost 30 kg, walked 2100 km, biked 1000 km, and the sum o…

What the heck kind of "snack" is 1000 kcal?

a slightly-larger-than-normal slice of pecan pie will easily get to 1000kcal. a la mode and you don't even need a normal sized slice.

Re: Scientist busts myths about how humans burn calories

#726
To lose fat, the biochemistry requires conversion of long chain hydrocarbons (fats) to carbon dioxide and water. For a good explanation see:

https://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/where-does-fat-go/11015048

To burn fat, you need to eat less food so you tap into your fat stores, but you also need to breathe in oxygen and breathe out the carbon dioxide and water.

Exercise essentially helps to decrease your glycogen stores so you get to a fat burning state and in breathing more which will help get more oxygen for the reaction and expel the carbon dioxide and water that are produced.

Re: Scientist busts myths about how humans burn calories

#727
post #719
post #712

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I’m sorry. I truly empathize. I can only apologize for what it sounds like. I do understand what it feels like to hear this stuff. I felt the same too, for a long, long time. I don’t actually know how to speak about what I think I’ve learned in a way that doesn’t come off as demeaning to some people. FWIW, my personal philosophy on tracking and controlling my inputs is almost completely focused on figuring out how to…

> I was only referring to the accepted fundamental truths about all human physiology CICO is fundamental to human physiology in the same way that "people become indebted because they spend more money than they earn" is fundamental to economics: true, but utterly useless for actually addressing poverty or obesity. An attractive red herring and a dangerous one. (It's even worse than that: at least we can measure income…

I completely agree with you about poverty and obesity. Those are systemic problems and are going to take something else to escape. Choices are removed for people who get stuck in those black holes, and its true that saying “use a budget” isn’t helpful after those happen. It might be helpful long before, but the forces are too strong for people who are spiraling down or stuck there. So, I hear you and I think you’re right about that. I’m not suggesting CICO is a tool to fix obesity.

Moreover, poverty and obesity are related. Poverty is affecting people’s food choices, and the cheap food and fast food we have is a lot of high fat, high sugar, high calorie, and huge portions.

CICO is more useful for people who are stable and fine, not under the poverty line and not obese, but just a little unhappy with their weight. CICO is what bodybuilders and athletes and models use, among many others, people mostly fine-tuning. (Just like how financial budgets are mostly helpful for rich people, and people optimizing their savings, but not particularly helpful for a single parent on minimum wage who’s unable to meet basic necessities.)

For someone who’s not suffering from either poverty or obesity, the difference between money/debt and calories/weight is you can only get money from other people, where you only get calories from yourself.

It doesn’t actually matter that calorie metrics are approximate and not perfect. The reason is because CICO enables a personal science experiment, and a process that can adjust and adapt to imperfect information. What it enables you to do is to calibrate your measurement first. Then, second, either reduce caloric inputs or increase caloric outputs to lose weight while making sure the other one doesn’t change, or do both. For average non-poor and non-obese people, CICO isn’t a prescription, nor is it a dangerous red herring, it’s basic consumer information that is, some say, dangerous to not know, which is why part of the important response to the obesity crisis is to demand accurate caloric labeling on food, to enable consumers to make healthier choices long before obesity. This is only the tip of the iceberg, we need better sugar and portion control and all kinds of things, but it’s a start.

CICO is like a PID controller but even simpler than that, it’s only the wires of a P controller where you are the controller. The only thing CICO says is which input to connect to, and that’s all. A PID controller doesn’t know a thing about the system it controls, it doesn’t have to. All that matters is that the inputs affect the outputs and the outputs can be measured. As long as the system output changes over time with it’s inputs, this P controller setup works. It still works when the underlying system has defects and bugs or differences in manufacturing from other systems, as long as the underlying system is responding to changes in input.

Re: Scientist busts myths about how humans burn calories

#728
post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey I truly wish you good luck in your search for what works. I mean it. This seems like overthinking it to me. If CICO doesn’t help you, then don’t use it. I’d love to hear about what alternatives work for you.

Thanks. I didn’t care at all about this until close people started to do random diets they see on instagram. Every single one of those were rooted on pop science, garbage studies and very shaky foundations. That got me to look a lot more on a regular basis into what we actually know, and the answer was “very little”. I think it’s fine for us to not know much about something. We don’t have all the answers in the unive…

Ah I wish we’d gotten to this earlier, you make some great interesting points we could talk about more. I think I should bite my tongue though, because my narrative isn’t helping you, and all I wanted to do was be helpful, especially for people who are where I used to be. That might not be you, I just want to say this in a way that would have convinced a younger me earlier. The only thing I’ll say here that is that fad diets are fundamentally different from setting a budget, I completely and totally agree that most fad diets are bullshit, especially the ones on Instagram. Keto has a pretty poor long term outcome rate, for example. The whole point of a diet is to avoid setting a budget, which is the main reason they have low success rates.

I like the way you put it, it’s okay that we don’t know everything, and you’ll have to try a bunch of stuff. That really is at the core of what I was trying and failing to say. :) We don’t actually know how gravity works, but we use it anyway. I made an analogy to PID controllers in another comment, maybe that’s a better way to describe calorie I/O; PID controllers know nothing about the thing they control other than it’s output, and yet they are an extremely useful tool.

My wife reminded me of a book that might interest you and might have pointers to some of the research you’re looking for. “The Secret Life of Fat: The Science Behind the Body's Least Understood Organ and What It Means for You“ by Sylvia Tara.

Re: Scientist busts myths about how humans burn calories

#729
post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My advise: (as someone who does a lot of working out and calorie control) Write down what you eat for a while and its calories. Weigh yourself daily as well and write that down too. If after a week your weight went up: Your calories are above your TDEE. If it went down: Your calories are under your TDEE. And that's basically it, once you know what your TDEE is, eat under it to create a caloric deficit and you will lo…

Of course, eating less is the ideal solution if you can muster the willpower to actually do it - but that's a big "if" for many people...

The big trick is figuring out mentally how to eat less without requiring willpower. It is possible. Depending on willpower is setting up for likely failure, IMO.

Re: Scientist busts myths about how humans burn calories

#730
post #723
post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You actually should eat more I did… the problem with me (and with, I dunno, half of humanity? ;)) was I over compensated, I ate more than I needed to build muscles and recover from exercise. So I gained weight slowly, or for long periods of time, just failed to lose the extra weigh I had through exercise alone. My problem is that exercise without calorie tracking doesn’t help me lose weight, I have to do both. And…

I think that one problém with calories focus is that it leads to exactly that. You do need to eat more, but not just more in terms of calories. If you will get soon of sugar or skice of bacon after exercising, it will provide calories but still leave you hungry needing more. Protein like cottage cheese or something like that helps a lot. Figuring out what it is your body needs helps a lot.

Totally agreed. In the same way that I learned late in life that strength and weight are mostly separate, it become more clear that other things we tend to conflate are also separate. Being healthy, being attractive, being strong, and being skinny are all mostly separate things, and working on those things involves different tools and techniques.

It’s definitely possible to lose weight and become less healthy by eating the wrong balance of macros. It’s also possible to become more healthy and/or stronger without losing weight. This is about deciding which goals you want, and figuring out how to get there. It’s easier to do one goal at a time (and all of these goals are extremely difficult to meet individually) but it’s also possible to work on several or all of them a little bit at a time too.

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