Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Dubai Debt Trap

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 356 posts

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#311

Post by ValentineC »

bduerst wrote: post #285
mbg721 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fwiw, a high-school friend of mine had a t-shirt that said "Singapore: It's a Fine City!" and underneath, it listed various legal offenses (like gum-chewing) and their fines.

IIRC you can chew gum in singapore, you just can't buy or sell it (similar to weed laws in certain U.S. states).

Singapore made a concession to allow Wrigley's sugar-free gum and nicotine gum when they entered into a free trade agreement with the US [1], but it's overpriced and rarely in stock at pharmacies.

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB108629672446328324

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#312

Post by ValentineC »

thebean11 wrote: post #251
tim333 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singapore is much more laid back. Usually the worst that will happen with foreigners is they deport them. Apart from drug dealing which carries a death penalty but they only do that when the person is guilty so don't deal drugs there! I thought they were quite long suffering with "Briton arrested for not wearing a facemask in Singapore' because he said he didn't believe in them and wouldn't do it. I think he was jail…

> but they only do that when the person is guilty Hmm..

I think it's more that drug limits and their corresponding punishments are clearly laid out in the law [1].

Singapore's police force and public prosecutor also practise a fair amount of prosecutorial discretion when it comes to charges [2], depending on how people plead their case before it goes to trial.

[1] https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/MDA1973?ProvIds=Sc2-#Sc2-

[2] https://singaporelegaladvice.com/law-articles/prosecutorial-...

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#313

Post by tristor »

FDSGSG wrote: post #302
tristor wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, I don't think this is okay. My comment is more pointing out that the article goes out of its way to act as if he's innocent only to later reveal he was actually convicted of the crime by a more trustworthy entity. It's a criticism of the article, not a justification of the treatment of this individual. It's clear that debtor's prison, en total, is unethical. It's also illegal in most of the Western world…

The article doesn't make a huge point of his guilt because it simply isn't relevant.

They make the point of having him appear innocent until they come out with his guilt. It’s like burying the lede.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#314

Post by oh_sigh »

hutzlibu wrote: post #299
oh_sigh wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing you're also a male, since I've literally never heard a good story about a female traveler without a male companion in Egypt or the Maghreb in general.

Well, to my surprise I have indeed met some western women who enjoyed hitchhiking through morocco alone (or together with a female friend). But they knew what to expect and were very strong women, who did not flinch by sexism and aggressive avances and could put them down. They might have been lucky, though. A moroccan women who also hitchhiked a lot just stated, the closer to mauretania, the more rape attempts.

I wouldn't exactly call needing to steel yourself against rampant sexism and aggressive sexual advances a "good story". I guess if they enjoyed themselves and weren't raped and murdered, that is all that matters.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#315

Post by friedturkey »

anonAndOn wrote: post #259
friedturkey wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man people really see some blog post about Japanese law by a person who doesn’t speak the language and think it’s some 1984 style country. In all honesty you can basically apologize out of a lot of crimes and police generally don’t bother with anything else unless there’s video evidence, they catch you in the act, or you’re a high profile person involved in a high profile act. Just never get caught with drugs in your…

Too bad they don't teach the crying technique before you visit! The young man I'm familiar with was locked up in holding (not sent to prison) for six months then put on a plane to his home country and told never to come back. That was a REALLY expensive joint.

It’s basically the inverse of the US system.

In the US, unless they have a solid case and offer a plea bargain, you’re better off not talking to cops and staying silent until they give up. In Japan, once you know they have somewhat of a case, you’re better off making it easy for the police and immediately apologizing. They mostly just drag people who don’t comply and haven’t really learned their lesson (it’s assumed you won’t be dumb enough to make the same mistake twice).

Most first time drug cases end with an apology, crying, and being let go. Americans make the mistake of thinking not talking will help, so police hold them until they do. It can help in bigger crimes, though, since if the evidence is hard to prove, they’ll just hold you for a while and hope you’ll confess, but if not, often let you go instead of risk losing at a trial.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#316

Post by inopinatus »

pcardoso wrote: post #185
spiderfarmer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After some bad experiences I will never visit an Arab country again. They'll have to do something against the sexism, constant heckling and the bad state of law before I even think about going there. Or they can do whatever they want, they don't have to change just for me. I'm 6 ft 6 and I have a blonde wife who's just a bit smaller. Even though we behaved very polite and dressed like locals it was like we had a big…

I must say I visited Jordan with my wife in 2020, right before the pandemic and I had a wonderful experience. No heckling, we felt safe all the time, people didn't rip us off, and when looked at we felt it was more curiosity than anything else. We loved it. I'm learning arabic on Duolingo now because I got curious about the script. Of course, YMMV.

I'll echo that, having had exactly the same experience in 2018. We stand out almost everywhere - I'm Caucasian with a rugby player's build, and my partner is tall and very obviously East Asian. Yet there was no heckling, no scams, no soliciting for bribes, at most there was friendly interest when interacting with locals. I fully expected to need grifter repellent from time to time, and but it was not so. So I'll also pipe up for Jordan.

I know it's not a perfect country, but to us it felt safe, in the way that some other nations don't, and we weren't confining ourselves to the usual tourist spots of Amman, Petra, and Wadi Rum, but also wandering further afield besides. Yet I've felt more at risk in parts of Europe, Russia, and China.

I just checked some global indexes and was not surprised to find that Jordan ranks #1 for literacy and medicine in the region, despite being one of the nations without oil revenue. In my experience it carried itself with the patina of both storied history and modern education.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#317

Post by bigcat123 »

JohnGB wrote: post #7

One of many reasons that I will never enter the UAE. There is no rule of law, and so no protection if anyone decides to charge you for anything. I've read of women being raped and then being charged for reporting it which essentially admits sex outside of marriage, or of foreigners who get driven into by a local and then charged as if they were the ones being reckless. That's not even going into their de facto slaver…

No post body was provided.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#318

Post by kmeisthax »

anonAndOn wrote: post #260
kmeisthax wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese drug prosecution is about as strict as American child porn prosecution, with the same para-judicial stigma about possession of it. If you are caught with drugs in Japan, you are going to be doing hard time, and even when you get out of jail people will not want to associate with you. In the rare case where the police prosecute you without evidence, you're still going to wind up spending months in a holding c…

>Japan is rather lax about CSAM possession Quite the opposite, in fact. CSAM is a pillar of the manga industry. Enjo kosai (compensated dating) is a cultural norm.

...Wait, that's what I was saying. What do you mean by quite the opposite?

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#319

Post by savant_penguin »

ncallaway wrote: post #125
savant_penguin wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right not no have your stuff stolen doesn't apply to you if you own a store

And which law is that?

All citizens of the United States shall have the same right, in every State and Territory, as is enjoyed by white citizens thereof to inherit, purchase, lease, sell, hold, and convey real and personal property. (R.S. § 1978.)

+

Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia. (R.S. § 1979; Pub. L. 96–170, § 1, Dec. 29, 1979, 93 Stat. 1284; Pub. L. 104–317, title III, § 309(c), Oct. 19, 1996, 110 Stat. 3853.)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1982

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1983

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#320

Post by selestify »

conductr wrote: post #229
justinroberts22 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't recommend even for just travelling? It is a safe country for tourists?

I've been as a tourist and had expat family live there for ~15 years. It's safe until it's not. Any unexpected confrontation or interaction with the officials can go sideways quick because they will fabricate whatever story fits their preferred reality and subject you to the consequences of it. The driving example is the most easily discussed because it's common to witness the locals simply not following laws or basi…

How did your employer find and hire such a fixer? Were they a local employer?
Post reply on HN