Live data from Hacker News

Why We Banned Legos (2006)

rethinkingschools.org

281–290 of 440 posts

Re: Why We Banned Legos (2006)

#281
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, no not voting on particular builds, the vote is "dismantle all structures" yes/no I agree, specific builds would probably lead to unhealthy dynamics.

Then you have a lot of kids just wishing for more natural disasters, and other kids repeatedly feeling powerless against it. Kinda interesting, I kinda like it

The kids who managed to build cool stuff would have to try to get the other kids on board, while the kids who feel left out would campaign for destruction... sounds like a recipe for conflict, but could go either way.

Re: Why We Banned Legos (2006)

#282
I found this article pretty hard to read, mainly because of the overly sweet (and indigestible) tone, dripping good-sentiments and smarty attitude displayed by the author.

Legos were among our favorite toys for me and my (6!) siblings. Sure we had a lot of arguments back then about who would get such and such rare pieces. But conflicts between young siblings rarely last long: we would always bargain, negotiate or cheat our way out of status quo and just continue building and playing. That's just what children do.

The author may have felt very smart removing legos altogether from those children and have them discuss about privileges and feelings instead. Sadly, inequalities and conflicts are extremely valuable things for kids to experience (to a reasonable extent of course) if only just for the fact that this is what they'll find outside.

By depriving those kids of situations where they could argue and work out settlements by themselves, and instead expecting them to behave like small adults able to come up with rationals about their supposed privilege or parrot the dominant mantra, you're undermining their ability to tackle real life, to learn how to become fair (and not naive) by themselves.

Sure kids need supervision. But give them too much of it and you'll be doing them a big disservice later.

Re: Why We Banned Legos (2006)

#283
post #218
post #21

> We didn’t want simply to step in as teachers with a new set of rules about how the children could use Legos, exchanging one set of authoritarian rules with another. Ann suggested removing the Legos from the classroom. This bold decision would demonstrate our discomfort with the issues we saw at play in Legotown. I have no words. How oblivious do you have to be to put these sentences together in this order?

Those sentences are not contradictory... Dictating new rules for an activity and taking time away from the activity to reflect on it are absolutely not the same thing.

Their rationale was that they didn't want to "exchange one set of authoritarian rules with another", but that's exactly what removing the activity did - it's just that the new set of authoritarian rules was, "no Legos".

Re: Why We Banned Legos (2006)

#284
Ironically, I find the described exercise to be useful, but not in a sense the teachers intended. Rather, the kids got a nice schooling in how public opinion is manufactured in "managed democracies".

Re: Why We Banned Legos (2006)

#285
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any sane, reasonable parent or teacher would have been able to solve the 'lego problem' without much fuss Do you have kids? Have you ever worked with kids? Helping kids to solve their conflicts is rarely “without fuss”. Even when there are only like 2–3 kids involved. Being “sane” and “reasonable” doesn’t go nearly as far as you might hope. (For that matter, the same goes for many office conflicts among groups of a…

I have 4 kids ages 6 and under. This is what you say: "You can't share the legos and play nice? That means that the legos are going away for tonight." "But we can share!!" "Ok, but this is your last chance." [kids play nicely or legos go away]

If you are lucky that works, but such conversations can also easily end with everyone in tears, “You don’t even like me!” “You don’t want me to have any fun!” “Everyone else was playing nice and it’s all your fault X!” etc. or various forms of subtle nastiness that goes under the radar and doesn’t disrupt the parents [which for some parents counts as mission accomplished]. In my house outcome depends substantially on whether kids (and parents) have had enough sleep the past few nights.

Some of my childhood friends with “sane” and “reasonable” parents (and who themselves grew into lovely adults) were incredibly cruel to their younger siblings, but were smart enough about it that adults never noticed.

Re: Why We Banned Legos (2006)

#286
post #206
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is article about teaching children to share Lego toys. No, it's about using lego to teach teaching kids about capitalism and power structures. > Exploring power, ownership, and equity in an early childhood classroom > These children seemed to squirm at the implications of privilege, wealth, and power that “giving” holds. The children denied their power, framing it as benign and neutral, not something actively…

> No, it's about using lego to teach teaching kids about capitalism and power structures. There was nothing in there about teaching kids about capitalism. It was about exploring the kid's understanding of ownership and power, which are far more fundental concepts that predate capitalism by thousands of years.

While it wasn't teaching about capitalism explicitly, it says:

"...the children were building their assumptions about ownership and the social power it conveys — assumptions that mirrored those of a class-based, capitalist society — a society that we teachers believe to be unjust and oppressive."

Re: Why We Banned Legos (2006)

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you have a lot of kids just wishing for more natural disasters, and other kids repeatedly feeling powerless against it. Kinda interesting, I kinda like it

The kids who managed to build cool stuff would have to try to get the other kids on board, while the kids who feel left out would campaign for destruction... sounds like a recipe for conflict, but could go either way.

They learn to socialise and to share wealth, to bring about good "karma" and not anger the democratic God's to smite them.

I kinda like it more now

Re: Why We Banned Legos (2006)

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking turns and sharing is reasonable when there is a fixed pie, such as you're in a lifeboat with 3 others and a gallon of water, or you're in a classroom with a fixed supply of Legos. However, fixed pies almost never happen in a free market, and are not a valid model for a free market. I've seen socialists before using fixed pie economics in classrooms to extol the evils of free markets. The Monopoly game was inve…

Isn't the whole world a fixed pie? Sure, technological advances let us make more efficient use of our resources, but they're still finite.

> Isn't the whole world a fixed pie?

Nope. We use energy to transform valueless things into ever more valuable things.

Re: Why We Banned Legos (2006)

#289
"These negotiations gave rise to heated conflict and to insightful conversation. Into their coffee shops and houses, the children were building their assumptions about ownership and the social power it conveys — assumptions that mirrored those of a class-based, capitalist society — a society that we teachers believe to be unjust and oppressive. As we watched the children build, we became increasingly concerned."

Great, teachers enforcing their principals on kids, forcing kids to play the way they think "is right."

Re: Why We Banned Legos (2006)

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I immediately recognized this article. I was surprised that parts of this were considered good ideas: SUPPORT STUDENTS TO RECLAIM THEIR MATHEMATICAL ANCESTRY • Intentionally include mathematicians of color. • Expose students to mathematicians of color, particularly women of color and queer mathematicians of color, both through historical examples and by inviting community guest speakers. • Teach students of color abo…

I feel like you're missing the point. The individual mathematicians don't really matter (in this particular exercise). The fact that there _were_ and _are_ mathematicians of color is what's relevant, because it turns out that representation is important. https://www.commonsensemedia.org/videos/why-race-and-represe...

Well, I might be missing the point. I'm just saying this: I don't think schools teach (or even imply) that mathematicians are straight white men. And in fact, schools (pre-University) don't talk about mathematicians at all. They deal in concepts which are not associated with individuals (arithmetic, geometry, trig, algebra, calc). There's only a couple of exceptions where individual mathematicians are named in high school (Euler and L'Hôpital come to mind). It's not until university level that you start getting into theorems, and actual mathematicians show up (Cayley's theorem, Lagrange's theorem, Abelian groups, etc).
Post reply on HN