Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 446 posts

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#381

Post by fullshark »

yumraj wrote: post #212
jimmaswell wrote: post #199

It's so disappointing to see people going on tirades against these things for no good reason other than seemingly to fit in with the trendy new "anti-techbro" luddite mindset. Automatic delivery robots and e-scooters are awesome. The future is awesome and we're living it and these people just want to be downers about it.

> future is awesome and we're living it This sentence which I keep seeing again and again always confuses me, because it makes no sense whatsoever. Is this something new that people have started using to defend and assign value to things when they run out of logical arguments in their favor? I see it being used to support crypto a lot.

It's about signaling that they believe they are the vanguard and you are going to get left behind naysayer.

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#382

Post by NoboruWataya »

politelemon wrote: post #273
hahajk wrote: post #242

We were walking past one of these robots whose wheel got stuck halfway off the curb, so it was completely stuck. My friend helped it back up, and it had a prerecorded voice say “thank you for helping me!” It was unexpected and delightful to be thanked by a robot, we make sure to help any we see that are in distress, even though we know they’re owned by a private company with profits in mind.

The helpfulness will, I hope, be remembered, and work in our favour when these robots have a greater stranglehold over general economic activities and we become further dependent and subservient to them. Sadly I've not heard of any kind of central database of robot assisting samaritans.

> Sadly I've not heard of any kind of central database of robot assisting samaritans.

That would be a GDPR violation.

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#383

Post by mulmen »

burlesona wrote: post #123
_fullpint wrote: post #13

Absolutely hate these scooters from an ADA prospective. My neighborhood is a mostly quiet one near the center of a large city, where there are a lot of mothers who push their kids in strollers, older folks with canes, and some people even in wheelchairs. On the weekends -- sometimes the weekdays as well depending on the time of the year -- the city gets flooded with both tourists, and suburbanites who want to go to a…

You should stop seeing scooters as the enemy. Scooter companies represent a lot of money that wants more space for pedestrians, bikes, and of course scooters in the city. They are a potential massive ally with deep pockets to push back against the car lobby. The battle here is not to fight over who has the right to be on the 10% of the street we call the sidewalk, it’s to take back some of the 90% of the street that’…

I hate the rental scooters and bikes. It’s just trash in my way. I live in an area that already has great walking and cycling options, but the scooters make that much less enjoyable.

But you are right and I hadn’t considered the benefits. So thanks for posting this.

Because of all the scooter trouble the city has reclaimed some parking spaces for scooters. So that is a step in the right direction. And if it gets people out of their houses and seeing where the bike infrastructure works and doesn’t that’s probably good for future expansion too.

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#384

Post by bombcar »

aqme28 wrote: post #42
nkrisc wrote: post #26

I understand this person is making a judgement on the state of mind of others, so it may not at all be accurate with regards to the people actually clearing the scooters, but I found this interesting nonetheless, that the author assumes this: > I just observed a couple of students clearing a path out of pity for the robots. I understand why people might feel pity for robots. People become attached to all sorts of ina…

There have been a few studies that people have actual sympathy for robots in distress.

Calling Wall-E a “study” is a new take on it :)

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#385

Post by rexpop »

rolandog wrote: post #376
DamnableNook wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kiwi bots aren't (weren't?) actually AI controlled. They had human drivers in South America that controlled them remotely. If one attacked you, it was either the human driver going agro, or just a problem with the latency of the camera -> cell network -> streamed to South America -> driver inputs command -> sent back to the US -> over the cell network -> back to the bot. And the cameras they have were pretty bad (the…

It's depressing to think that companies have normalized passing "mechanical turks" (exploiting workers from an impoverished country) as AI.

For more in that depressing vein, check out "Ghost Work: How to Stop Silicon Valley from Building a New Global Underclass" by Mary L. Gray

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#386

Post by mulmen »

derivagral wrote: post #246
lkbm wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but right now it feels like the scooter companies have decided it's easier to inconvenience pedestrians than to ally with us and fight car culture. I'm a huge fan of the idea of plentiful, cheap scooters for short trips, and was excited to have a new cohort of people who would want more safe bike (and scooter) routes. Alas, as much as I love the concept, I've developed a strong dislike for the companies. I'v…

Complaints like this are typically run through the city or campus that leases operation rights to the fleet. These entities usually get fairly forceful in (competitive) markets. Your local scooter outfit(s) are not going to want to risk a market with a ton of complaints and bad operations feedback. That said: given GPS limitations, the time it takes for a van with humans to arrive (and park!), as well as lagging feed…

The fact that scooter companies are focused on “winning markets” makes me think they are a negative. For this to work the price has to be low. That means competition.

In my neighborhood both Comcast and CenturyLink provide service. When the CenturyLink installer showed up he explained the install would take longer than estimated because he couldn’t use the line directly in front of my house. That’s a “Comcast line”. Apparently Comcast techs will literally cut competing lines off theirs.

I wonder what the scooter van equivalent is. Is there someone leaving competing scooters in the middle of the sidewalk as a psy-op to disrupt competing marketshare?

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#387

Post by mkl »

burlesona wrote: post #123
_fullpint wrote: post #13

Absolutely hate these scooters from an ADA prospective. My neighborhood is a mostly quiet one near the center of a large city, where there are a lot of mothers who push their kids in strollers, older folks with canes, and some people even in wheelchairs. On the weekends -- sometimes the weekdays as well depending on the time of the year -- the city gets flooded with both tourists, and suburbanites who want to go to a…

You should stop seeing scooters as the enemy. Scooter companies represent a lot of money that wants more space for pedestrians, bikes, and of course scooters in the city. They are a potential massive ally with deep pockets to push back against the car lobby. The battle here is not to fight over who has the right to be on the 10% of the street we call the sidewalk, it’s to take back some of the 90% of the street that’…

Scooter companies aren't in it for the long haul like that. I've seen four different scooter companies come and go in my city (well, the fourth hasn't gone yet). They seem to buy a batch of scooters, keep them in service until they've made back their investment or lost too many scooters, then disappear. They don't care about the disruption and inconvenience they cause, or the ways they could make the city better, because they don't even see those things - they don't seem to have a presence here beyond a few gig-employees charging scooters.

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#388

Post by MathCodeLove »

rolandog wrote: post #376
DamnableNook wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kiwi bots aren't (weren't?) actually AI controlled. They had human drivers in South America that controlled them remotely. If one attacked you, it was either the human driver going agro, or just a problem with the latency of the camera -> cell network -> streamed to South America -> driver inputs command -> sent back to the US -> over the cell network -> back to the bot. And the cameras they have were pretty bad (the…

It's depressing to think that companies have normalized passing "mechanical turks" (exploiting workers from an impoverished country) as AI.

Those "exploited workers" probably made decent money relative to the cost of living in their location, and they got to do it from the comfort of a computer instead of hard labor in the sun, which is what someone in their same socioeconomic bracket would more likely be doing.

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#389

Post by pixl97 »

hahajk wrote: post #242

We were walking past one of these robots whose wheel got stuck halfway off the curb, so it was completely stuck. My friend helped it back up, and it had a prerecorded voice say “thank you for helping me!” It was unexpected and delightful to be thanked by a robot, we make sure to help any we see that are in distress, even though we know they’re owned by a private company with profits in mind.

Heh, I know HN doesnt like witty one liners, but...

"Thank you, human, you will be spared during the robot apocalypse"

Would be an equally funny and terrifying message.

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#390

Post by GrantZvolsky »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #272
kube-system wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't imagine that would help. Most of these scooter companies already do some sort of education regarding traffic laws... but when was the last time you saw a person on a scooter, stopped at a red light, wearing a helmet? The only way it'll be fixed is if someone actually enforces compliance.

I haven’t, one of these things knocked me out unconscious while I was waiting for green light to cross the road. It came from the side, hit me, I landed in the middle of the street. Happened right in front of the central station in Antwerpen. Just imagine how confused you are waking up laying in the middle of the road while a paramedic smacks you in the face and asks you if you know what your name is. I’m going to sp…

From what I've seen in Oxford and Munich, scooter drivers are quite considerate in these cities.

Oxford:

- requires a driver's license

- capped at 12mph

- highly granular 0/5/8/12mph zones (boundaries are a bit spotty, but will likely get better with time)

- only allowed to park at predefined parking spots

- decent bike/e-scooter infrastructure

- loud

- private scooters are illegal and common

Munich:

- driver's license not required

- capped at 20km/h

- allowed to park anywhere

- great bike/e-scooter infrastructure

- quiet

- private scooters are legal and rare

The speed limit in Antwerpen is 25km/h. From my experience of driving in Prague, which also has a 25km/h speed limit, (omitted above because I haven't seen many people driving there), the difference in vehicle control when driving at 20km/h vs 25km/h is enormous. At 20km/h, the braking distance is ~2m, the turning radius is small, and hopping off the scooter to avoid a collision feels safe. Driving among car traffic is smoother at 25km/h, but it doesn't feel safe to hop off at that speed and the turning radius feels twice the 20km/h value.

Post reply on HN