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Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

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Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#51

Post by GeoAtreides »

chrisseaton wrote: post #25
tyingq wrote: post #7

At least in the US one thing that has made this worse is universal cheap access to criminal background checks. That didn't used to exist, so a criminal background blocked access to jobs with big companies that could do background checks. But, you could get a job at smaller companies. That's gone now...a criminal background gets a "no" from almost everyone. Other countries have a system where some government agency pr…

What's the alternative to public conviction information? Secret trials?

In Europe there are no such things as: 1) secret trials (there are in US[1]) 2) background checks (for the majority of jobs). Also, criminal records get erased after a period of time, depending on the crime committed.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intellig...

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#52

Post by nicoburns »

KorematsuFredt wrote: post #44
earspider wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This misses the point. There's an obvious solution: disallow employers (except in outlier cases where there are safety concerns) from using criminal background checks in hiring decisions.

That would not work. I do not want my teenage daughter to do part time work in a business that employs a sex offender. I do not want to work with an insurance agent who engaged in a financial fraud few years ago.

Here in the UK we a sex offenders register, but general crimes get struck off the official register after a certain period of time and no longer come up on background checks. It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than locking people out of work forever!

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#53

Post by giraffe_lady »

deeg wrote: post #38
jl6 wrote: post #10

In previous centuries, there were plenty of jobs with low trust requirements - chiefly, unskilled manual labor. A criminal record wasn’t such a barrier to that type of employment. Someone could spend time in prison, and then still find work on the outside. Not great work perhaps, but a living - a way forward for them, to re-integrate back into society. A way to slowly rebuild trust. The shift away from unskilled manu…

I wonder if the growing number of WFH jobs would help alleviate this. I'm a software engineer who mostly works from home. We sell (mostly) support for OSS. This seems like a situation where an ex-con might have an opportunity.

What does that have to do with anything? There's not a shortage of jobs that they are able to do, there's a shortage of jobs we're willing to let them do.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#54

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

brnaftr361 wrote: post #37
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've missed the point. Employers have a valid reason to want to disallow those with criminal backgrounds from a large swath of jobs. This is an area where I think regulation would be helpful/necessary, in that when doing a background check that the employer needs to enter business and job scope, and then the law would define which types of criminal background would be relevant and potentially disqualifying…

Dude I got dinged for a weed possession charge from my 17th year when I was 21 for a job at Kum'N'Go. I don't give a fuck what kinda logical hoops they jumped through, but it's obscene considering about a month after that I was working in a critical industry with literally millions of dollars of equipment in my hands and a high-risk environment. It doesn't make sense in so many cases, probably most and it only increa…

I'm not exactly sure if you are disagreeing with me, because what you are saying is exactly my point.

A weed possession charge as a minor is the type of thing that I think regulation should disallow as a disqualifying factor for all types of jobs. The idea would be that I would ask a background check service "I am hiring for a CLERK at CONVENIENCE_STORE", and I would just get back a response "No disqualifying convictions found" if all you had were a weed conviction.

I work for a financial services company, and we have pretty clear guidelines about what is or isn't disqualifying. But why should I even have the right to know, for example, if someone was convicted of a DUI 10 years ago? But I absolutely do think I should have the right to know if someone was convicted of theft 2 years ago.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#55

Post by lr4444lr »

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #47
KorematsuFredt wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would not work. I do not want my teenage daughter to do part time work in a business that employs a sex offender. I do not want to work with an insurance agent who engaged in a financial fraud few years ago.

Are those not exceptions? How many of the unemployed young men have criminal records concerning sex offense or financial fraud?

The criminal mind uses the means available to him. Bernie Madoff was as much a psychopath as a your average mugger; he just had capabilities to not to have to resort to that crude a level of harm.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#56

Post by dahfizz »

deeg wrote: post #38
jl6 wrote: post #10

In previous centuries, there were plenty of jobs with low trust requirements - chiefly, unskilled manual labor. A criminal record wasn’t such a barrier to that type of employment. Someone could spend time in prison, and then still find work on the outside. Not great work perhaps, but a living - a way forward for them, to re-integrate back into society. A way to slowly rebuild trust. The shift away from unskilled manu…

I wonder if the growing number of WFH jobs would help alleviate this. I'm a software engineer who mostly works from home. We sell (mostly) support for OSS. This seems like a situation where an ex-con might have an opportunity.

I think the opposite is more likely. WFH increases the level of trust needed between employer and employee.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#57

Post by simmanian »

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

One of the few 501(c)3's I will give money to is an organization that helps offenders go straight when they get out of jail and I see my name on a very short list of private donors. In the 1990s I was a victim of what I would call "Domestic Terrorism", the ringleader of the group didn't go to prison for his actions against me and other people at my college but I did hear that he went to prison for drug charges not lo…

Which org do you donate to?

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#59

Post by chrisseaton »

GeoAtreides wrote: post #51
chrisseaton wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the alternative to public conviction information? Secret trials?

In Europe there are no such things as: 1) secret trials (there are in US[1]) 2) background checks (for the majority of jobs). Also, criminal records get erased after a period of time, depending on the crime committed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intellig...

> no such things as secret trials ... criminal records get erased after a period of time

So it becomes a secret that the trial happened?

And I've been background checked for jobs I've had in Europe, even normal civilian jobs.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#60

Post by GeoAtreides »

This is horrifying. You have a huge number of disfranchised people, who can't normally participate in society -- they can't get a job, they can't a mate. On this path lies radicalization and violence. I'm not sure you understand how truly chilling this is. These people, with nothing to lose, absolutely nothing to lose, have easy access to weapons and ammunition.

You are sitting on a very very large powder keg and it will take just one spark, one charismatic leader, to unite them and blow the whole shebang up.

Act now before it's too late.

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