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Carl Akeley’s fight to the death with a leopard (1923)

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Re: Carl Akeley’s fight to the death with a leopard (1923)

#21

Post by jmnicolas »

mauvehaus wrote: post #19
jmnicolas wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sentient leopard wouldn't have such pity for you, you're just a meal. While I don't condone free kills either, let's not idealize animals. I wish I could find the article that dispelled myths about animals (where you among other things learn that dolphins and sea otters have rapists amongst their ranks).

Sure, but as the species that claims greater intelligence, surely the onus is on the humans to not put themselves into a situation where they become a meal. Blindly shooting at an unknown target doesn't exactly suggest taking this responsibility seriously. I'd have been a-ok with the leopard making a meal of him for his foolishness. If we take it as a given that animals have no morality, or at least different moralit…

I mostly agree with you, but don't forget that this story happened about a hundred years ago. People had different mentalities back then, less empathy.

> The ranger said humans aren't tasty to wolves.

I'm pretty sure it's BS. I'd bet more on wolves being afraid of humans (which is a good survival trait! Here in western Europe they have been hunted to extinction).

I saw a YT video where a woman is recording a wolf that didn't see her. When it realize she's there, the wolf is startled and runs away.

Re: Carl Akeley’s fight to the death with a leopard (1923)

#22

Post by Layke1123 »

jmnicolas wrote: post #14
areoform wrote: post #12

I have vacillated on whether or not I should write this comment. I am writing this because most of the comments are focused on the man's prose and prowess. I am on the leopard's side here. Leopards, and most members of the Felidae (cat) family, are sentient, and we hunted some members of this family to near extinction because of accounts like these. Accounts that glorified the "adventure" of going into their habitats…

The sentient leopard wouldn't have such pity for you, you're just a meal. While I don't condone free kills either, let's not idealize animals. I wish I could find the article that dispelled myths about animals (where you among other things learn that dolphins and sea otters have rapists amongst their ranks).

Careful, there could be an alien out there thinking the same about what you just wrote.

Re: Carl Akeley’s fight to the death with a leopard (1923)

#23

Post by oh_sigh »

jmnicolas wrote: post #14
areoform wrote: post #12

I have vacillated on whether or not I should write this comment. I am writing this because most of the comments are focused on the man's prose and prowess. I am on the leopard's side here. Leopards, and most members of the Felidae (cat) family, are sentient, and we hunted some members of this family to near extinction because of accounts like these. Accounts that glorified the "adventure" of going into their habitats…

The sentient leopard wouldn't have such pity for you, you're just a meal. While I don't condone free kills either, let's not idealize animals. I wish I could find the article that dispelled myths about animals (where you among other things learn that dolphins and sea otters have rapists amongst their ranks).

How does OP idealize animals? And why exactly does the leopard's capability for pity matter?

I can have pity on a baby, or a tree, and help preserve it, even if it doesn't have the capability to pity or perform a similar task for me.

Re: Carl Akeley’s fight to the death with a leopard (1923)

#24

Post by titzer »

jmnicolas wrote: post #14
areoform wrote: post #12

I have vacillated on whether or not I should write this comment. I am writing this because most of the comments are focused on the man's prose and prowess. I am on the leopard's side here. Leopards, and most members of the Felidae (cat) family, are sentient, and we hunted some members of this family to near extinction because of accounts like these. Accounts that glorified the "adventure" of going into their habitats…

The sentient leopard wouldn't have such pity for you, you're just a meal. While I don't condone free kills either, let's not idealize animals. I wish I could find the article that dispelled myths about animals (where you among other things learn that dolphins and sea otters have rapists amongst their ranks).

> The sentient leopard wouldn't have such pity for you, you're just a meal.

Sorry, but no. Leopards are not mindless eating machines that can be treated like evil robots with one intent. They have complex lives think about things, and feel pity, if limited. They are scrappy fighters getting pushed to the brink by human encroachment. They have shard minds and are shrewd when necessary. When they're gone, the world will have lost something seriously majestic--majestic in terms of millions of years of evolution and another branch of the tree of life sawed off. There will be only one reason that leopards go extinct, and that's us. They are consummate hunters, and they'll eat anything because they have to.

> dispelled myths about animals (where you among other things learn that dolphins and sea otters have rapists amongst their ranks).

If anything, the myth is that animals are simple, don't have issues, and don't live complex lives. Squirrel #57 is not the same as squirrel #43. That should make us want to stamp out their existence even less.

Re: Carl Akeley’s fight to the death with a leopard (1923)

#25

Post by littlestymaar »

LiquidPolymer wrote: post #3

Having been around wild leopards in Africa, and worked around nearly all the big cats - leopards scare me the most. A tiger or lion can be confused by unexpected behavior which can delay or slow an attack. Leopards are the most single-minded predator I've ever seen in action and the only equivalent I can think of is a great white shark. Leopards are relentless, ferocious and deadly. I suspect Mr. Ackley's encounter w…

> I suspect Mr. Ackley's encounter was with a young or sick leopard, or perhaps the tale is exaggerated. An experienced adult would have dispatched with him in seconds.

It looks that he sort of agrees with you, except it was a injured leopard and he was the one who injured her earlier. From the story:

> As I looked at her later I came to the conclusion that what had saved me was the first shot I had fired when she went into the bush. It had hit her right hind foot. I think it was this broken foot which threw out the aim of her spring and made her get my arm instead of my throat

Re: Carl Akeley’s fight to the death with a leopard (1923)

#26

Post by Sharlin »

oxfeed65261 wrote: post #8
d_silin wrote: post #2

"Her intention was to sink her teeth into my throat and with this grip and her forepaws hang to me while with her hind claws she dug out my stomach, for this pleasant practice is the way of leopard".

It is fun to watch a fuzzy little kitten do exactly this when trying to savagely disembowel a stuffed animal.

Also the reason that a cat rolling on its back is not a signal of submission but rather usually an invitation to play. It’s a defensive position in which it has all of its sharp pointy bits readily usable.

Re: Carl Akeley’s fight to the death with a leopard (1923)

#27

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

mauvehaus wrote: post #19
jmnicolas wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sentient leopard wouldn't have such pity for you, you're just a meal. While I don't condone free kills either, let's not idealize animals. I wish I could find the article that dispelled myths about animals (where you among other things learn that dolphins and sea otters have rapists amongst their ranks).

Sure, but as the species that claims greater intelligence, surely the onus is on the humans to not put themselves into a situation where they become a meal. Blindly shooting at an unknown target doesn't exactly suggest taking this responsibility seriously. I'd have been a-ok with the leopard making a meal of him for his foolishness. If we take it as a given that animals have no morality, or at least different moralit…

> Sure, but as the species that claims greater intelligence, surely the onus is on the humans to not put themselves into a situation where they become a meal.

If you look at human history, they have mostly done that by eliminating predatory megafauna. There used to be lions in the Middle East and Europe.

Re: Carl Akeley’s fight to the death with a leopard (1923)

#28

Post by kayodelycaon »

jmnicolas wrote: post #21
mauvehaus wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but as the species that claims greater intelligence, surely the onus is on the humans to not put themselves into a situation where they become a meal. Blindly shooting at an unknown target doesn't exactly suggest taking this responsibility seriously. I'd have been a-ok with the leopard making a meal of him for his foolishness. If we take it as a given that animals have no morality, or at least different moralit…

I mostly agree with you, but don't forget that this story happened about a hundred years ago. People had different mentalities back then, less empathy. > The ranger said humans aren't tasty to wolves. I'm pretty sure it's BS. I'd bet more on wolves being afraid of humans (which is a good survival trait! Here in western Europe they have been hunted to extinction). I saw a YT video where a woman is recording a wolf tha…

Having volunteered at a wolf sanctuary and interacted with a few of the human-friendly ones, they are as skittish as startled deer.

Toss a deer leg in the pen and they run for the back fence.

Not all though. Some of the “lower ranked” ones realized what was happening and took the opportunity to grab food they usually would have to wait for.

Re: Carl Akeley’s fight to the death with a leopard (1923)

#29

Post by technothrasher »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #18
areoform wrote: post #12

I have vacillated on whether or not I should write this comment. I am writing this because most of the comments are focused on the man's prose and prowess. I am on the leopard's side here. Leopards, and most members of the Felidae (cat) family, are sentient, and we hunted some members of this family to near extinction because of accounts like these. Accounts that glorified the "adventure" of going into their habitats…

I have a conjecture I can not prove, built up over decades: we are all wild animals, in personally varying degrees, regardless of species (for those normally labelled as such). One example of this is people living with pet tigers and lions, who behave exactly like domestic sized felines, but of course are bigger than humans so can actually hurt you when wrestling in play, etc. . People kill other people out of fear,…

It sounds like you're just redefining "domestic" to mean "not at all related to other animals". Domestication usually signifies that the species has gone through significant human caused changes from their wild ancestors, not that they've been completely divorced from all wild behaviors.

As for us homans, sure, of course we're evolutionarly related to other animals, and are going to exhibit some of the same behaviors.

Re: Carl Akeley’s fight to the death with a leopard (1923)

#30

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

areoform wrote: post #12

I have vacillated on whether or not I should write this comment. I am writing this because most of the comments are focused on the man's prose and prowess. I am on the leopard's side here. Leopards, and most members of the Felidae (cat) family, are sentient, and we hunted some members of this family to near extinction because of accounts like these. Accounts that glorified the "adventure" of going into their habitats…

> Accounts that glorified the "adventure" of going into their habitats, killing their prey, and then shooting them with gun powder and a metal slug.

Except for the gun powder and metal slugs, that “adventure” is the story of humanity’s rise and spread. Humans are native to only a very small part of the world. We became the way we are because humans did go into new habitats, challenged the apex predators, took their prey, and displaced the previous apex predators.

That story of adventure resonates because it has resonated for millennia (consider the myths and paintings and sculptures). That story resonates, because you and I are descendants of people just like that who entered new habitats and outthought, outorganized, and outfought, all the predators that would want to kill them.

So my sympathies are with the man and not the leopard.

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