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Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

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Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#281

Post by KennyBlanken »

erulabs wrote: post #252
agumonkey wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why they don't parametrize momentum with certainty. In any confusing situation, go into ultra slow environment scanning and when confidence increases, allow for a bit more.. rinse / repeat.

Tesla does exactly this and it gives rise to the phantom breaking problem. Still seems like a good solution for a small bot with no passengers

No? There are numerous clips where Telsas in "full self driving" mode pull the equivalent maneuver of a teenager going "OH SHIT I WANT TO GO THERE" and veering very violently.

The phantom braking problem is likely just one of the many symptoms of Musk's insistence on relying on optical systems instead of more expensive sensors.

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#282

Post by mywittyname »

ok123456 wrote: post #270
bourgoin wrote: post #69

A couple of years ago, I was attacked by a Kiwi bot near a UC campus. This is my story. The bot and I were moving towards each other on a sidewalk, and when I came close it stopped, as they do when sensing an object in front of them. But there was an awkward moment as I tried to go around it and it repeatedly jerked forward an inch as its motor kicked on and off. Maybe I was walking around the very edge of its radius…

I'd just start up-ending them if I had to deal with these on a daily basis. Might even start carrying a sledgehammer for self-protection.

>just wait for SCOTUS to declare these robots have 2A rights, and they can shoot anything that gets in their way.

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#283

Post by KennyBlanken »

jcrawfordor wrote: post #238
Tempest1981 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one I've seen in the wild. The K5 rocket-shaped model is heavy, 400 lbs (180 kg) https://www.knightscope.com/

"rocket shaped" is sort of a generous way to describe it. My first exposure to security robots was actually a company marketing a repurposed remote-controlled lawnmower platform. It was nearly the size of a Smartcar but low to the ground and designed to cross difficult terrain. Even so, a similarly designed lawnmower tumbled down a hill and killed its operator around the same time frame (I don't think from the same c…

Shape ! = center of gravity. All the power and movement stuff is likely very close to the ground, and thus the robot very difficult to tip over.

https://www.dannyguo.com/blog/my-seatbelt-rule-for-judgment/

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#284

Post by js2 »

bourgoin wrote: post #69

A couple of years ago, I was attacked by a Kiwi bot near a UC campus. This is my story. The bot and I were moving towards each other on a sidewalk, and when I came close it stopped, as they do when sensing an object in front of them. But there was an awkward moment as I tried to go around it and it repeatedly jerked forward an inch as its motor kicked on and off. Maybe I was walking around the very edge of its radius…

I’ve had this happen with actual humans. A human is coming toward me on a path. I zig. They zig. I zag. They zag. We walk into each other. It must be some kind of human path finding bug. :-)

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#285

Post by slickdork »

rtlfe wrote: post #240
Kaze404 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be glad to not see scooters as the enemy if they weren't so dangerous for everyone involved. Though I guess space is a big factor in that, now that I think about it.

> I would be glad to not see scooters as the enemy if they weren't so dangerous for everyone involved. There's absolutely no comparison between the dangers of scooters and cars. Every person who decides to use a scooter instead of driving or taking a taxi is having a huge positive effect on safety.

Counterpoint: These scooters go 20 MPH and there's no oversight on where or how they are used. I walk around a 'pedestrian only' lake every day, and these scooters come about literally 2 inches from me going 20 mph every 2-3 minutes. Usually they are driven by (likely drunk) teenagers.

My daily walk is incredibly more dangerous and stressful due to these scooters existing.

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#286

Post by jeffreygoesto »

jdlshore wrote: post #266
chillingeffect wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I can say without breaking agreements is that these are products , not ideal models of conceptual engineering. They're not created by people who like the world and want it to be a better place. They're created by people with lots of money who want a lot more. They've found an avenue for this by persuading other wealthy, greedy people to give them a lot of money and promising they can give them more back. They'll…

That's an unnecessarily cynical generalization. Sure, maybe the leaders of the companies creating these things are profit-motivated, but is that really true of the individual engineers and designers who created it?

No, that is a very accurate description. The engineers willing to work on those things and suppressing deeper thoughts for the money and kick off new tech are part of the equation and the problem.

A manager I had once had a postcard in his office "The engineer is the camel on whos back the merchand rides to his success."

You are a lever and even provide the excuse for being one yourself.

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#287

Post by widdakay »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #193
kube-system wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't imagine that would help. Most of these scooter companies already do some sort of education regarding traffic laws... but when was the last time you saw a person on a scooter, stopped at a red light, wearing a helmet? The only way it'll be fixed is if someone actually enforces compliance.

I agree, and even if punishing bad behavior is appealing, I think it'd work best if Scooter Co. added sensors so it could tell/see where the rider parked the scooter, and rewarded good parking with free rides (which would also prevent griefing the last rider by quickly dragging it somewhere terrible to get them punished).

Last time I rode one they required that I take a picture of how I left it to prove that I abided by their placement rules in order to end the ride.

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#288

Post by mywittyname »

bluGill wrote: post #237
vorpalhex wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And shoving it into traffic - or at least calling the police and pressing charges - would have been the right thing to do! If you want to use robots, fine. You are still responsible for them and any people they bowl over!

Probably. This seems like a public space so almost certainly. However if this was private space sometimes the rules are different. Once in a while I have to go into our factory (not even once a year, but sometimes), and they always make it clear that forklifts have the right away so watch out. (forklifts have poor visibility, so by giving them the right of way they ensure nobody expects them to stop - in practice a f…

I don't think this shields the company from liability. Instead it provides some ammunition to use in the event of a lawsuit.

Things are very different between employees and the general public. I imagine a jury would find that a lady-busting security robot is negligent by default. Whereas, a fork lift driver would be assumed to be doing his job and that situational negligence would need to be proven.

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#289

Post by slickdork »

dheera wrote: post #198
_fullpint wrote: post #13

Absolutely hate these scooters from an ADA prospective. My neighborhood is a mostly quiet one near the center of a large city, where there are a lot of mothers who push their kids in strollers, older folks with canes, and some people even in wheelchairs. On the weekends -- sometimes the weekdays as well depending on the time of the year -- the city gets flooded with both tourists, and suburbanites who want to go to a…

What if they set up the scooter system such that if you parked the previous scooter incorrectly, the next scooter you rent squirts water on your pants? It's not technologically that difficult. Or put little fisheye cameras on every scooter and if you park it incorrectly every scooter you walk past for the next 24 hours uses face recognition and blasts insults at you unless you go back and re-park it correctly.

I've often wondered why scooter companies don't keep metrics on their users, and punish the ones who use their product poorly (donuts, bad parking, use on sidewalks, etc) and came to the conclusion that these antisocial users are very likely the scooter companies largest consumer base. The scooter companies are likely incentivized to not regulate.

Re: Difficult situation on campus: traffic jam of food delivery robots

#290

Post by ta8903 »

rtlfe wrote: post #240
Kaze404 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be glad to not see scooters as the enemy if they weren't so dangerous for everyone involved. Though I guess space is a big factor in that, now that I think about it.

> I would be glad to not see scooters as the enemy if they weren't so dangerous for everyone involved. There's absolutely no comparison between the dangers of scooters and cars. Every person who decides to use a scooter instead of driving or taking a taxi is having a huge positive effect on safety.

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