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The Dubai Debt Trap

economist.com

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Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#231

Post by feupan »

mrwnmonm wrote: post #228
feupan wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hilarious. You continue making assumptions about everyone here. You don’t know my media and you don’t know what I know. You assume I’m talking about Arab countries while I just mentioned “poorer countries”, as if you’re the only one around. I’m talking out of my own experience in Africa, Asia and South America. I don’t go flashing out money around and I know exactly how I’m seen and how I’m treated in every place I’v…

In my first comment I said "Are you western?", so the rest of the comment goes if he/she was western. And the thread is about Arab countries, so replying while assuming you are talking about Arab countries is also valid. I am not sure who is full of hatered here, telling me to go f myself while I am trying to say my understanding about a place I know more than you do.

I say that because you came out saying you are “tired” of people talking like that and answering with worse behavior. You’re not here to discuss it but just to attack strangers, which is why I’m using this tone.

“Are you western?” is not an acceptable start. How would you like it if I started my comment with: “Are you black?” — regardless of whether you are, which is my point.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#232

Post by BeetleB »

vianneychevalie wrote: post #80
logicchains wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is no rule of law In San Francisco if someone walks into your shop and steals less than $950 worth of goods there's pretty much nothing you can do about it; is that rule of law?

In the article, it's mentioned that people there are held in jail for decades for debts below $1000. That's the "debt trap" in the title. I'd argue that I'd rather let someone steal than let them rot in jail for such a long time, for such a low monetary value, be it from debt or from theft. I understand you may disagree, that's why we do politics. Additionally, which country has the best "rule of law", comparatively?…

> In the article, it's mentioned that people there are held in jail for decades for debts below $1000. That's the "debt trap" in the title.

Eh, lots of people are in jail in the US primarily due to their inability to pay court fees. Many because they couldn't pay the public defender fees.[1] Lots of cases where the accumulation of court fees dwarfs the financial costs of their original crime, and are punished much more for not being able to pay for fees than for their original crime.

Oh, and in some states they suspend your driver's license for nonpayment of these fees. This makes it even harder to work and earn money.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/government_public/publica...

[1] Many wrongly assume that "the courts will provide one for you" means they're free. They often aren't.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#233

Post by rastignack »

mrwnmonm wrote: post #217
rastignack wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or one could see what happened in Tahrir, Koln, Milan. Or the fact that some imams in my country call out unveiled women as prostitutes. There are issues with women rights in many country. Blaming the west is a way to ignore them.

I didn't blame the west, I said they play a role. I realize there were a lot of issues before the US become a world leader and even before the British/French colonization. I will say it in a different way, WE ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY, but you are too blind not to realize that by yourself.

I do know who is my enemy and who is not. I have lots of friends coming from these countries. Been there with them. They do not speak like you.

The enemies are roughly Salafia and Ikhwan. They are the ones with the hateful retoric. And they have a huge following.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#234

Post by lm28469 »

roystonvassey wrote: post #41
retube wrote: post #5

All I ever hear is horror stories about this place: environmental destruction, structural racism, serious abuse of human rights, culturally hyper conservative, corrupt legal system, plus it's absurdly hot. I can't believe anyone would voluntarily go there, seems like hell on earth.

Even visiting the place as a tourist left a bad taste - everything is made up, the service industry is mostly unfriendly (our sightseeing bus left us stranded somewhere and then later on the desert trip, the car broke down middle of nowhere and the driver had no other help so we had to help him fix it), no public transport to speak of, fanciest cars on one side and hapless labourers trudging in the heat alongside. Ap…

> everything is made up

I've never been to this country but I've been to Vegas once and I somehow expect the whole experience to be very similar and to attract the same kind of people

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#235

Post by feupan »

mrwnmonm wrote: post #230
feupan wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe it's time you engaged with the cultures. I'm sure it'll be "No thanks". Surprise me. I’ll surprise you: English is not my first language, I haven’t been in my home country since 2015, I speak 3 languages fluently, I’m currently living in Indonesia and can already speak my fourth language (although not well). I lived 3-15 months each in more than 10 countries. You got the wrong person. I know what I’m talking…

Wow, bulling people all over the place. > I lived 3-15 months each in more than 10 countries. Is that supposed to mean that you know those countries more than natives?

Who mentioned you?

You’re completely out of context. I’m just replying to the parent suggesting I don’t engage with the cultures.

All I need to tell you is that I’ve been stared at, followed, called names, harassed in a number of countries, and many of them were Arab. Go figure.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#236

Post by lm28469 »

netsharc wrote: post #78
morelisp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it’s enjoyable for brief tourist/business visits, you’ve got literal slaves attending to you.

A redditor living there once responded to "why would you be okay living in a country with slave labor?" by asking the commenter: who made the stuff they owned. Who mined the minerals for your electronics (probably exploited miners), who made your clothes (probably underpaid Bangladeshis). So the difference between the average Westerner and a Dubaian is the distance the slaves are to the consumer.

It's called whataboutism and is a logical fallacy. If you feel good directly interacting with literal slaves I'm sure you would resort to this kind of mental gymnastic though

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#238

Post by mrwnmonm »

feupan wrote: post #231
mrwnmonm wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my first comment I said "Are you western?", so the rest of the comment goes if he/she was western. And the thread is about Arab countries, so replying while assuming you are talking about Arab countries is also valid. I am not sure who is full of hatered here, telling me to go f myself while I am trying to say my understanding about a place I know more than you do.

I say that because you came out saying you are “tired” of people talking like that and answering with worse behavior. You’re not here to discuss it but just to attack strangers, which is why I’m using this tone. “Are you western?” is not an acceptable start. How would you like it if I started my comment with: “Are you black?” — regardless of whether you are, which is my point.

Judging from your comments, you are not in a position to talk about my behaviour.

I asked that, because we always get that from most western people. Western media which is being watched all over the world shape us in a certain way, while they play a role in keeping our countries as it is. You just want to bully and cancel an Arab my friend because you hate us, that's all.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#239

Post by feupan »

mrwnmonm wrote: post #238
feupan wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say that because you came out saying you are “tired” of people talking like that and answering with worse behavior. You’re not here to discuss it but just to attack strangers, which is why I’m using this tone. “Are you western?” is not an acceptable start. How would you like it if I started my comment with: “Are you black?” — regardless of whether you are, which is my point.

Judging from your comments, you are not in a position to talk about my behaviour. I asked that, because we always get that from most western people. Western media which is being watched all over the world shape us in a certain way, while they play a role in keeping our countries as it is. You just want to bully and cancel an Arab my friend because you hate us, that's all.

Sorry that you feel that way; detach from the media because I feel a lot of anger coming from you towards westerners. I don’t hate you. I just got triggered by your denial of our mistreatment and your whataboutism.

I hope to visit more Arab countries soon and make more friends there.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#240

Post by Teracotage »

Geekette wrote: post #227
Teracotage wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who did not bother to read the article, it is about fraud during the financial crisis. I feel sad for Cornelius and wish he is set free. As a resident of Dubai for 30 years, I am always curious to learn things that I may have missed about 'my city', yet this article is misleading in many ways, its few first paragraph where it states that Ryan Cornelius 'thought the authorities had simply made a mistake;' Re…

It is less about fraud and more about the existence of draconian laws (imprisoning debtors) in a place that professes modernity and manipulation of or utter disregard for said laws by those in high places. All parties including the main lender knew about the irregularities you cited, yet they agreed to restructure the loan. The man's fraud charge normally carries a 3 year sentence but he's still in prison 13 years la…

Imprisoning debtors has been a request from British banks to operate in the country. Yes, banks wield vast powers but when you are playing with billions you gotta pay to play .I lost my life savings in that crisis, for no reason at all on my part. It was the greed of banks and many fraudsters . I was rightfully imprisoned in Dubai, which is very rare to admit, I was drunk on a public beach and kissing my girlfriend in Ramadan, in jail for 24 hours, every prisoner there claimed to be innocent, even a Russian mafia thug, that was as hilarious as this article form the Economist.
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