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Happy 15th birthday Hacker News

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Re: Happy 15th birthday Hacker News

#161
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're baiting flags and downvotes here, intentional or not. It will seem to confirm your faulty view of HN. Isn't that handy?

I agree with him partly, and at least two other users voiced the same concern, one albeit in an abrasive manner. It's still the best place to have a debate though. There are some topics that are very predictable, some of them are noticeably left issues, some things more loosely connected. Crypto, Tesla, Brave, Facebook, Israel, etc. are all subjects you'll most likely get heavily downvoted and probably flagged if you…

I've been around since near the start in one way or another. The only big change I've seen is the near complete disappearance of casual bigotry. People still voice a wide range of views, but now it helps to not be an ass about it. It used to be someone could just go on a screed about the right topics and get lots of upvotes. Now they have to launder it a bit.

The flipside is I can actually share my somewhat left of center views without being flagged and downvoted into oblivion as long as I practice a little decorum. If anything, the quality is up because people have to put a little effort in now.

Re: Happy 15th birthday Hacker News

#163
post #117
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to disagree... Things aren't that bad, but I've definitely noticed a lot more cases of downvoting of "against the grain" comments or opinions with often very few responses in the last couple of years. Previously, I rarely noticed heavily downvoted comments, and in the cases they were, there were almost always reply comments explaining the opposite side, leading to IMO much better disc…

Maybe, but 5-10 years ago Apple-bashing was a karma death sentence (never guess how I learned that). Now it seems to be more of an active discussion (mostly due to the MBP keyboard situation I guess?).

Big Tech bashing is in fashion, is that really a surprise? It's totally mainstream now. That doesn't mean HN is more accepting of alternative viewpoints in general. Maybe even the opposite.

Re: Happy 15th birthday Hacker News

#165
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with him partly, and at least two other users voiced the same concern, one albeit in an abrasive manner. It's still the best place to have a debate though. There are some topics that are very predictable, some of them are noticeably left issues, some things more loosely connected. Crypto, Tesla, Brave, Facebook, Israel, etc. are all subjects you'll most likely get heavily downvoted and probably flagged if you…

I've been around since near the start in one way or another. The only big change I've seen is the near complete disappearance of casual bigotry. People still voice a wide range of views, but now it helps to not be an ass about it. It used to be someone could just go on a screed about the right topics and get lots of upvotes. Now they have to launder it a bit. The flipside is I can actually share my somewhat left of c…

I haven't seen bigotry at any scale really, but my definition isn't as loose as it is for some people.

Decorum is always welcome, but that's not really what I'm talking about, my main observation has been the group think, parroting of talking points, downvoting without disputing, and most importantly flagging to disagree with/hide dissent.

Some topics draw it more than others, I mentioned the obvious ones, it seeps into others though.

It doesn't matter how cordial you are, sometimes you will be flagged for your contrarian views.

Honestly user flagging and possibly even downvoting should be removed, it's abused too much.

A simple block button that would hide all posts from the user for that client would suffice, mods could look at block rates of a post/user and review if it is spam or breaks the rules.

I'm sorry but I don't need another person's opinion of a post to grey out or hide a comment. I can make the judgement for myself whether I disagree with it or not.

Re: Happy 15th birthday Hacker News

#166

HN is what reddit used to be like when it first started. Links to interesting Tech, programming and science stories and high quality discussion compared to something like Digg. Thankfully HN hasnt dropped in quality on that front unlike reddit. Its still so good I dont even click on the link I click on comments to get a HN summary which gives me a pretty good idea if its worth reading or not. Most of the time the com…

I've always thought HN was more like the spiritual successor to Slashdot then (most of) Reddit.

On /. it was COMMON to be participating in a discussion about (for example) a camera problem on one of NASAs' probes, and very soon you would discover that the actual people from NASA that were working on it were in the forum talking about what they were actually doing and getting to the core issues rather then the press-release fluff.

If there was a science/tech story you could almost guarantee that the authors of the paper themselves would show up, and all of a sudden you would get 10PHD's from different fields all "working together".

There was another thread that I remember a bit better because I was involved in it. Somebody had an old/obscure bit of computer hardware that was last used in a 386. (A tape-drive backup that used the floppy-controller to read/write data to the drive.) The person was desperate to get a copy of his thesis off of the drive, but there was a hardware failure on both the drive and the old PC.

Well in the thread one of the old engineers that had designed the drive at his old company chimed and said he had the part that was broken and would ship it out to him. Then another person offered to send a USB to Floppy controller so that his "new PC" (sans floppy interface) would be able to work. THEN the tech director of a major backup company (software) offered his labs to have the the whole PC & tape drive shipped to their headquarters where the lab would get the files off the drive for free because "I want my team to have the chance to train on this, and learn how to restore it all."

In the end it was a happy story for the end-user. But I see a similar gathering of the minds on HN as I once did on Slashdot.

My /. ID was 5 digits.... The internet was different back then, but it's nice to see that people can still be the same.

Re: Happy 15th birthday Hacker News

#167
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree with berkut. I had to stop using a previous hn account because it was so incredibly frustrating when people would downvote me with no explanation. I would cite my comments with reputable sources but that never helped. It was enough to prevent me from contributing to the discussion until recently. Certain beliefs or opinions in the minority are not very well tolderated here. It's still certainly better…

I don't blame HN, I blame the invention of the downvote button. I find it easier to hold a slightly controversial opinion here than it has ever been possible on Reddit, especially the programming and tech subreddits which are very low quality in general. The downvote button is awful, but why is it surprising that controversial opinions are downvoted? Being downvoted is the proof the opinion is controversial. It would…

Ah, but if you think about it, the upvote button has the same dysfunction as the downvote button, just at the other extreme. The downvote button punishes controversy; but the upvote button rewards orthodoxy. So even without a downvote option, orthodox comments rise to the top.

The upvote button also acts a bit like a Rotten Tomatoes score, in that it compresses the full range of "scores" people might give something down into just "did you like it or not." So something that a thousand people can like just enough to vote for, will end up upvoted much more highly than something that 100 people absolutely love. The things you see rising to the top are thus whatever is "blandly agreeable" to the most people, rather than what is "seriously amazing" to a non-negligible subset of people.

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IMHO a "proper" solution for both of these problems would be entirely different than what we've got now.

• The primary factor for ranking posts/comments would be an "engagement score", coming from how long in aggregate users spend actually looking at/reading the comment or linked page (which is in fact practical to observe if this social-bookmarking service is interacted with primarily through a browser extension / app, as would be the modern trend.)

• Posts (and comment threads) would additionally gain some (diminished) bonuses from the aggregate scores of their child-comment subtrees. So boring posts/root-comments with engaging comments subthreads would still rise to the top, to ensure that those subthreads are surfaced to appreciate. (Probably there'd have to be UX for this case, highlighting the aspect of the post+comments that's so engaging.)

• Something upvote-like would still exist (though it'd be optional for the system's functioning, because of the engagement score); but adding one would require a proof-of-work (e.g. solving a CAPTCHA.) This signal could thus be factored quite strongly when available (presuming the service has sufficient anti-botting measures in place.)

• You can actually upvote things multiple times — but the proof-of-work required would be exponentially-increasing. One CAPTCHA for one point; another two for a second point; another four for a third point. This solves the "Rotten Tomatoes" problem.

• No downvotes; instead, comments can mark themselves as being a "rebuttal" to the post/comment they're responding to. (Maybe entirely-separate "comment" and "rebut" UX flows.) The aggregate engagement+upvote scores of all "rebuttals" to a thing, would then be inherited as a "malus", i.e. a bonus with the sign flipped; high-scoring rebuttals lower the rank of the thing they rebut, which means that that thing then has less of a score to contribute as a bonus to its own ancestors.

• This down-ranking would be applied recursively from the leaf nodes up; the malus of a rebuttal on its ancestors would be "weakened" if the rebuttal was hit with a malus from high-powered rebuttals of its own.

Re: Happy 15th birthday Hacker News

#168
If instead of coming here for 15years and leaving a comment every other day you invested the dollar amount equivalent to the time you took to write that comment instead you would have $100k.

  10 mins(time to read/write comment) x $120/hr
    = $20 x 30 days/mo x 0.5 (every other day)
    = $300/mo x 15 years x 8% (compounded annually)
    = $100k

Re: Happy 15th birthday Hacker News

#169
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to disagree... Things aren't that bad, but I've definitely noticed a lot more cases of downvoting of "against the grain" comments or opinions with often very few responses in the last couple of years. Previously, I rarely noticed heavily downvoted comments, and in the cases they were, there were almost always reply comments explaining the opposite side, leading to IMO much better disc…

There is online manipulation here and pretty much everywhere else where people can discuss things. It can come in a variety of forms. https://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/109634/1/MPRA_paper_109634.p... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-op... Reputation Management https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reputation_management which obviously protects income streams for entities, but the military also protect…

Such things of course exist but the problem is that internet users are inclined to see astroturfing, shilling, brigading, state actors, and so on in every comment they dislike. Then they react aggressively as if they are uncovering crimes, which pushes discussion quality downhill. That's why we ask people not to post that way unless they have actual evidence (in which case they should be sending it to hn@ycombinator.com so we can investigate). Someone else having a disagreeable view does not count as evidence.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

Re: Happy 15th birthday Hacker News

#170
post #80
post #34

I’ve been coming here from the beginning. Off and on. Different handles because I rarely saved my passwords. I absolutely appreciate all the gem comments especially from insiders. This is the only place that reminds me of 90s newsgroups. I want to especially thank Dang for keeping this place consistent.

Was also here on the 1st day, the same day I decided to start-up 15 years ago! Took me 7 years to create an account though. Wish I had done it sooner! Especially ALWAYS reading the comments BEFORE the actual articles! Thanks!

how did people hear about it back then?
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