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The Dubai Debt Trap

economist.com

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Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#101

Post by dicroce »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #47
JohnGB wrote: post #7

One of many reasons that I will never enter the UAE. There is no rule of law, and so no protection if anyone decides to charge you for anything. I've read of women being raped and then being charged for reporting it which essentially admits sex outside of marriage, or of foreigners who get driven into by a local and then charged as if they were the ones being reckless. That's not even going into their de facto slaver…

After some bad experiences I will never visit an Arab country again. They'll have to do something against the sexism, constant heckling and the bad state of law before I even think about going there. Or they can do whatever they want, they don't have to change just for me. I'm 6 ft 6 and I have a blonde wife who's just a bit smaller. Even though we behaved very polite and dressed like locals it was like we had a big…

I'm 6'6"... I wish you would mention the countries so I can make sure to never go.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#102

Post by laurent92 »

JohnGB wrote: post #7

One of many reasons that I will never enter the UAE. There is no rule of law, and so no protection if anyone decides to charge you for anything. I've read of women being raped and then being charged for reporting it which essentially admits sex outside of marriage, or of foreigners who get driven into by a local and then charged as if they were the ones being reckless. That's not even going into their de facto slaver…

If you are afraid of the lack of rule of law, there are not many countries we need to avoid. Japan has a 99.995% of inculpation after their police interview. And that has to do with the fact that their interview can lawfully last for 22 days, renewable. You can’t even avoid USA: 95% of jailmates are there upon self-admission of guilt without external proof, ie. without objective proof besides self-incrimination.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#103

Post by _hhkg »

bigthymer wrote: post #65
_hhkg wrote: post #25

As a Bay Area native who moved to Abu Dhabi / Dubai roughly four years ago, I have a lot of issues with the way the UAE is portrayed across sites like Hacker News and Reddit. A lot of them are in the comments for this story, focusing on all the negatives of the country, structural racism, human rights abuse, etc and we certainly have a right to raise these things (of which I actively fight against here every day). Th…

Debt is not illegal in Islam.

You’re right, just reading more on the topic now, it’s a punishable offense, not illegal. My mistake thanks for pointing this out

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#104

Post by Workaccount2 »

apohn wrote: post #60
retube wrote: post #5

All I ever hear is horror stories about this place: environmental destruction, structural racism, serious abuse of human rights, culturally hyper conservative, corrupt legal system, plus it's absurdly hot. I can't believe anyone would voluntarily go there, seems like hell on earth.

I say this as somebody who lived in one of those Middle Eastern countries for a good period of my life. I'm not a white person and at that time I didn't have a US/European passport, so I didn't lead an extra privalaged life there. Here's what you can hear about the USA. 1)Endless suburban sprawl, resulting in massive environmental destruction. Illegal immigrants heavily involved in the construction industry, leading…

I guess the issue for me is that there are places where people greatly exaggerate their claims, and there are places where those seemingly exaggerated claims are legitimate.

Given that, I don't think I have ever read anything good about the UAE, either editorial or comments from expats. Maybe from insta influencers who wanted to pad their hollow "luxury life" existance.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#105

Post by throw__away7391 »

logicchains wrote: post #74
throw__away7391 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think an educational program is needed to take people from the US to visit some non-western countries with "human rights issues" and see what this actually looks like for a bit to cure this kind of whataboutism deflections that crop up anytime criticisms are made of conditions for people in foreign countries.

>take people from the US to visit some non-western countries with "human rights issues" and see what this actually looks like for a bit I'm sure once they come to Dubai they'll be horrified how the streets aren't covered in human shit and used needles.

I almost feel like you're proving my point. Try going outside the tourist districts. Nobody is complaining that the streets of downtown Dubai are dirty, they're complaining that they're being cleaned by slave labor.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#106

Post by moralestapia »

RF_Savage wrote: post #91
moralestapia wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was studying in Saudi Arabia (at KAUST) and my daughter got kidnapped for two weeks when I refused to comply with some work conditions they were trying to impose on me. Granted, the guys that did this were not arabs, they were two professors from Australia and the US, but still, it was weird how everybody turned their back on this as it seemed like the standard procedure to follow when one does not cooperate. WTF.…

How do some australian dudes not get trouble from their government for participating/organizing a kidnapping to blackmail somebody? The US persons especially.

If you know more about what I could do, please get in touch (email on my profile). I am not from Australia or the US, so I don't really know how to start with such procedure.

Also, it was such a traumatic experience that I was truly relieved when me and my family were back at home and safe, I wanted to just forget about it and rebuild my life at the moment.

Now I'm in a much better place so I'm looking to, at least, share my story; particularly with young students, like I was at the time, so I could prevent them from going to these places where abuse is common and rampant.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#107

Post by [deleted] »

zaphod12 wrote: post #84
apohn wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say this as somebody who lived in one of those Middle Eastern countries for a good period of my life. I'm not a white person and at that time I didn't have a US/European passport, so I didn't lead an extra privalaged life there. Here's what you can hear about the USA. 1)Endless suburban sprawl, resulting in massive environmental destruction. Illegal immigrants heavily involved in the construction industry, leading…

I don't know about number 7 - most of the USA is actually pretty nicely temperate. There are some exceptions like death valley (3000 sq mi) or the chihuahan dessert (about 25000 sq mi in the USA), or some parts of Alaska, but we're talking about a very small area of a 3.7 million sq mi country. If those aren't your thing, I do recommend skipping them. UAE is only 32000 sq mi and it's all very very hot. Otherwise that…

[deleted]

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#108

Post by actionfromafar »

RF_Savage wrote: post #91
moralestapia wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was studying in Saudi Arabia (at KAUST) and my daughter got kidnapped for two weeks when I refused to comply with some work conditions they were trying to impose on me. Granted, the guys that did this were not arabs, they were two professors from Australia and the US, but still, it was weird how everybody turned their back on this as it seemed like the standard procedure to follow when one does not cooperate. WTF.…

How do some australian dudes not get trouble from their government for participating/organizing a kidnapping to blackmail somebody? The US persons especially.

Even in the US people get away with all sorts of stuff when there's no evidence.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#109

Post by delecti »

logicchains wrote: post #48
brthsim wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Quoted post unavailable.

Comparing slavery to vaccines is simply absurd. Slavery is one of the worst things humans do to each other, and vaccines are one of our greatest accomplishments as a species. You can go through life as a walking petri dish for dark age plagues if you'd like, but I think it's good for society to keep you away from the rest of us.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#110

Post by mabbo »

_hhkg wrote: post #25

As a Bay Area native who moved to Abu Dhabi / Dubai roughly four years ago, I have a lot of issues with the way the UAE is portrayed across sites like Hacker News and Reddit. A lot of them are in the comments for this story, focusing on all the negatives of the country, structural racism, human rights abuse, etc and we certainly have a right to raise these things (of which I actively fight against here every day). Th…

You remind me of myself when I used to work for Amazon.

I'd also spend a lot of time explaining to friends how "It's complicated" and "You know, they also do a lot of good things". But the reality I wouldn't admit to myself was much simpler: they were doing awful things, but I was willing to work for them as long as they paid me enough and made my life comfortable enough.

It's very uncomfortable to admit to yourself that your ethics and morals have a price. I hope yours was high enough.

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