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The Dubai Debt Trap

economist.com

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Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#91

Post by RF_Savage »

moralestapia wrote: post #37
CydeWeys wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd expand it to never do business in the Middle East. It's just not worth it.

I was studying in Saudi Arabia (at KAUST) and my daughter got kidnapped for two weeks when I refused to comply with some work conditions they were trying to impose on me. Granted, the guys that did this were not arabs, they were two professors from Australia and the US, but still, it was weird how everybody turned their back on this as it seemed like the standard procedure to follow when one does not cooperate. WTF.…

How do some australian dudes not get trouble from their government for participating/organizing a kidnapping to blackmail somebody? The US persons especially.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#92

Post by logicchains »

codechad wrote: post #29
_hhkg wrote: post #25

As a Bay Area native who moved to Abu Dhabi / Dubai roughly four years ago, I have a lot of issues with the way the UAE is portrayed across sites like Hacker News and Reddit. A lot of them are in the comments for this story, focusing on all the negatives of the country, structural racism, human rights abuse, etc and we certainly have a right to raise these things (of which I actively fight against here every day). Th…

You wax poetically about UAE (mostly emotion, little fact), then remind the reader that it is an Islamic dictatorship. Why would any intelligent person ever set foot there? I'd lose over half of my current rights as it stands.

No post body was provided.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#93

Post by [deleted] »

apohn wrote: post #60
retube wrote: post #5

All I ever hear is horror stories about this place: environmental destruction, structural racism, serious abuse of human rights, culturally hyper conservative, corrupt legal system, plus it's absurdly hot. I can't believe anyone would voluntarily go there, seems like hell on earth.

I say this as somebody who lived in one of those Middle Eastern countries for a good period of my life. I'm not a white person and at that time I didn't have a US/European passport, so I didn't lead an extra privalaged life there. Here's what you can hear about the USA. 1)Endless suburban sprawl, resulting in massive environmental destruction. Illegal immigrants heavily involved in the construction industry, leading…

[deleted]

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#94

Post by moralestapia »

savant_penguin wrote: post #83
Grollicus wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't it be? Rule of law basically means laws apply to everyone the same.

The right not no have your stuff stolen doesn't apply to you if you own a store

GP said laws not rights.

Your rights can be infringed by any person on Earth at any time they please. But then, laws can be invoked to make said person stop and to apply the appropriate punishment/reparations.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#95

Post by tasha0663 »

draugadrotten wrote: post #15
baybal2 wrote: post #10

ProTip: Never ever open a credit card in the UAE, or just never deal with anybody on credit here. Cash, cash, cash only.

ProTip: "Cornelius undoubtedly committed fraud", according to the article. Never commit fraud in the UAE.

Does "fraud" here mean "fraud" there? What is the Arabic word for fraud? Are there multiple words for it with nuanced meanings?

I don't know the answers, but I can imagine such an arrangement where saying "I can pay X amount of money owed on my credit card at Y date" and then failing to do so for any variety of reasons could be seen as fraudulent.

I think the real LPT is to be darn sure you know the law and the language in strict places, and if you can't, be unreasonably careful.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#97

Post by jacquesm »

apohn wrote: post #60
retube wrote: post #5

All I ever hear is horror stories about this place: environmental destruction, structural racism, serious abuse of human rights, culturally hyper conservative, corrupt legal system, plus it's absurdly hot. I can't believe anyone would voluntarily go there, seems like hell on earth.

I say this as somebody who lived in one of those Middle Eastern countries for a good period of my life. I'm not a white person and at that time I didn't have a US/European passport, so I didn't lead an extra privalaged life there. Here's what you can hear about the USA. 1)Endless suburban sprawl, resulting in massive environmental destruction. Illegal immigrants heavily involved in the construction industry, leading…

> Human rights on a sliding scale, with rich white rapists getting no jail sentences, and poor black people and immigrants going to jail for minor offenses.

Some things seem to be universal.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#98

Post by apohn »

ludamad wrote: post #82
apohn wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say this as somebody who lived in one of those Middle Eastern countries for a good period of my life. I'm not a white person and at that time I didn't have a US/European passport, so I didn't lead an extra privalaged life there. Here's what you can hear about the USA. 1)Endless suburban sprawl, resulting in massive environmental destruction. Illegal immigrants heavily involved in the construction industry, leading…

"a lot of people like to feel like the rest of the world is a shithole." I wouldn't say that's my bias - I like to travel so I like to feel like the rest of the world is welcoming. However, clear problems that are different from what I'm used to do make me uncomfortable

>I like to travel so I like to feel like the rest of the world is welcoming.

I'm not making any assumptions about you in this post, but just making a comment.

I think the challenge here is that "welcoming" is relative to who you are, including your financial status and skin color.

There are countries people talk about on HN and Reddit which are super welcoming, everybody is friendly, great for remote work, taking an inexpensive vacation, etc.

I once traveled to one of those countries with a white friend. It was comical to see how differently we'd be treated even though we'd be walking next to each other on the road or sitting together at a restaurant. We're clearly friends and hanging out. He'd get his ass kissed and I'd be treated like a non-entity. Our English, human interaction skills, and financial status were pretty much the same. It's not like anybody could tell his passport or mine by looking at us.

Again, UAE and other countries in that region have lots of problems. So this isn't negating what you are saying.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#99

Post by logicchains »

For everyone talking about the poor South Asian migrant workers in slave-like conditions there, note that most such workers would much rather be working in developed places like the US or Europe, but the immigration policies of those countries deny them that chance. Dubai is one of the few places in the region (and the world) that makes it very easy for anyone to come there and work, regardless of their race or nationality.

I.e. those workers wouldn't be slaving away there if western countries had more liberal immigration policies.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#100

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #47
JohnGB wrote: post #7

One of many reasons that I will never enter the UAE. There is no rule of law, and so no protection if anyone decides to charge you for anything. I've read of women being raped and then being charged for reporting it which essentially admits sex outside of marriage, or of foreigners who get driven into by a local and then charged as if they were the ones being reckless. That's not even going into their de facto slaver…

After some bad experiences I will never visit an Arab country again. They'll have to do something against the sexism, constant heckling and the bad state of law before I even think about going there. Or they can do whatever they want, they don't have to change just for me. I'm 6 ft 6 and I have a blonde wife who's just a bit smaller. Even though we behaved very polite and dressed like locals it was like we had a big…

Which country?
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