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The Dubai Debt Trap

economist.com

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Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#81

Post by logicchains »

mbg721 wrote: post #67
moralestapia wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>no one who moves to Dubai for a middle class job will ever experience any of the things you’ve listed Sorry, but that is just not true. You're always one mistake away from losing all your rights and going through a miserable experience. This could happen to anyone who is basically not royalty or extremely high ranks, I've experienced it first-hand. Everyone knows this, so people are quite afraid to mess up, at any l…

How does it compare to Singapore in that aspect? I get the same impression there when people talk about how it all works really well until it doesn't.

Dubai's much more honest about what it is; an absolutely monarchy that doesn't pretend to be a democracy. As long as you don't piss off the king or the locals, you're pretty much free to mind your own business and do whatever you want, especially if you're indirectly contributing to the king's real estate portfolio/the city's development. Singapore on the other hand is run by hall monitor types who believe they should have a say in every little aspect of how you live your life.

Poor South Asian migrant workers are also treated better in Dubai. In Singapore they have a separate class of work visa with very limited rights, and during covid they were locked down in their worker dormitories for over a year, unable to interact with the rest of society.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#82

Post by ludamad »

apohn wrote: post #60
retube wrote: post #5

All I ever hear is horror stories about this place: environmental destruction, structural racism, serious abuse of human rights, culturally hyper conservative, corrupt legal system, plus it's absurdly hot. I can't believe anyone would voluntarily go there, seems like hell on earth.

I say this as somebody who lived in one of those Middle Eastern countries for a good period of my life. I'm not a white person and at that time I didn't have a US/European passport, so I didn't lead an extra privalaged life there. Here's what you can hear about the USA. 1)Endless suburban sprawl, resulting in massive environmental destruction. Illegal immigrants heavily involved in the construction industry, leading…

"a lot of people like to feel like the rest of the world is a shithole." I wouldn't say that's my bias - I like to travel so I like to feel like the rest of the world is welcoming. However, clear problems that are different from what I'm used to do make me uncomfortable

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#83

Post by savant_penguin »

Grollicus wrote: post #77
logicchains wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is no rule of law In San Francisco if someone walks into your shop and steals less than $950 worth of goods there's pretty much nothing you can do about it; is that rule of law?

Why shouldn't it be? Rule of law basically means laws apply to everyone the same.

The right not no have your stuff stolen doesn't apply to you if you own a store

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#84

Post by zaphod12 »

apohn wrote: post #60
retube wrote: post #5

All I ever hear is horror stories about this place: environmental destruction, structural racism, serious abuse of human rights, culturally hyper conservative, corrupt legal system, plus it's absurdly hot. I can't believe anyone would voluntarily go there, seems like hell on earth.

I say this as somebody who lived in one of those Middle Eastern countries for a good period of my life. I'm not a white person and at that time I didn't have a US/European passport, so I didn't lead an extra privalaged life there. Here's what you can hear about the USA. 1)Endless suburban sprawl, resulting in massive environmental destruction. Illegal immigrants heavily involved in the construction industry, leading…

I don't know about number 7 - most of the USA is actually pretty nicely temperate. There are some exceptions like death valley (3000 sq mi) or the chihuahan dessert (about 25000 sq mi in the USA), or some parts of Alaska, but we're talking about a very small area of a 3.7 million sq mi country. If those aren't your thing, I do recommend skipping them. UAE is only 32000 sq mi and it's all very very hot.

Otherwise that's all fairly accurate. But Disney world is pretty damn great.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#85

Post by tasha0663 »

brthsim wrote: post #39
_hhkg wrote: post #25

As a Bay Area native who moved to Abu Dhabi / Dubai roughly four years ago, I have a lot of issues with the way the UAE is portrayed across sites like Hacker News and Reddit. A lot of them are in the comments for this story, focusing on all the negatives of the country, structural racism, human rights abuse, etc and we certainly have a right to raise these things (of which I actively fight against here every day). Th…

Anyone who says "We certainly have a right to raise [...] (issues with) racism, human rights abuse, etc." and immediately follows with "That being said however", is automatically not entitled to an opinion. You're clearly biased and enfatuated with the richness of the country and easy access to slavery and are more than content of looking the other way.

Opinions will exist with or without your permission. There's no entitlement about it, and you would have no standing to decide it if there was. "Automatically not entitled to an opinion" is a dog whistle for fascism.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#86

Post by RF_Savage »

lmm wrote: post #59
codechad wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wax poetically about UAE (mostly emotion, little fact), then remind the reader that it is an Islamic dictatorship. Why would any intelligent person ever set foot there? I'd lose over half of my current rights as it stands.

It's easy to think you have a lot of rights until you try to do something unpopular with them. I left the west for somewhere where I have a lot fewer rights on paper, but I feel so much freer now, no longer constantly worrying about what the mob thinks of everything I say. I won't defend the UAE, but the level of freedom you have in actual daily life is surprisingly disconnected from what's written in a constitution…

Doesn't that just mean that there's more space for one to get arbitrary trouble the moment somebody decides that they don't like you or what you do?

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#87

Post by sandeeps_ »

logicchains wrote: post #69
JohnGB wrote: post #7

One of many reasons that I will never enter the UAE. There is no rule of law, and so no protection if anyone decides to charge you for anything. I've read of women being raped and then being charged for reporting it which essentially admits sex outside of marriage, or of foreigners who get driven into by a local and then charged as if they were the ones being reckless. That's not even going into their de facto slaver…

>There is no rule of law In San Francisco if someone walks into your shop and steals less than $950 worth of goods there's pretty much nothing you can do about it; is that rule of law?

Ha

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#88

Post by concinds »

ur-whale wrote: post #13

https://archive.is/GKvGU

This extension is effective, and by default restricts its access only asks for permissions for supported news sites (instead of having permission to access "All site data" like too many browser extensions):

https://gitlab.com/magnolia1234/bypass-paywalls-chrome-clean

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#89

Post by moralestapia »

mbg721 wrote: post #67
moralestapia wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>no one who moves to Dubai for a middle class job will ever experience any of the things you’ve listed Sorry, but that is just not true. You're always one mistake away from losing all your rights and going through a miserable experience. This could happen to anyone who is basically not royalty or extremely high ranks, I've experienced it first-hand. Everyone knows this, so people are quite afraid to mess up, at any l…

How does it compare to Singapore in that aspect? I get the same impression there when people talk about how it all works really well until it doesn't.

I cannot vouch for anything good or bad about Singapore as I have never lived there nor know anybody who has.

But, for sure, there's plenty of places in the world who operate in a similar way.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#90

Post by _hhkg »

codechad wrote: post #29
_hhkg wrote: post #25

As a Bay Area native who moved to Abu Dhabi / Dubai roughly four years ago, I have a lot of issues with the way the UAE is portrayed across sites like Hacker News and Reddit. A lot of them are in the comments for this story, focusing on all the negatives of the country, structural racism, human rights abuse, etc and we certainly have a right to raise these things (of which I actively fight against here every day). Th…

You wax poetically about UAE (mostly emotion, little fact), then remind the reader that it is an Islamic dictatorship. Why would any intelligent person ever set foot there? I'd lose over half of my current rights as it stands.

I’m not waxing poetic about anything. I agree that the UAE has engaged (and continues to engage) in several atrocities. Many many horrible things which as mentioned, I’m also combating during my time here.

Also you mentioned little fact, mostly emotion, but i stated things like the Year of Tolerance, the religious temples being built, etc. but I’d hope others can also investigate on their own. We are so quick to paint countries as evil without understanding the full situation.

I’ve met several intelligent people here from everywhere in the world and many here are trying to have a positive impact on the country.

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