This study does a better job of correlating software developers and personality types
On Extroverted Programmers
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Re: On Extroverted Programmers
#32Myers-Briggs is derided by psychologists because 1) it is typographical, 2) the theory behind the test is based on unproven cognitive processes called functions; these are completely speculative, and 3) borderline personalities are inconsistently typed because the types are dichotomous.
On the other hand, Myers-Briggs does have some merit. Most psych professionals actively endorse the Big Five personality assessment. Based on trait theory, the Big Five is empirically valid, though somewhat theoretically sparse. Here's the rub, 4/5 Big Five traits correlate very strongly with the Myers-Briggs letters. E/I to Extroversion, T/F to Agreeably, J/P to Conscientiousness, and S/N, albeit weaker, to Openness. Myers-Briggs doesn't have a measure of Neuroticism(the fifth Big Five trait). So while the actual type combinations are unscientific, the test is still based on personality distinctions that have been researched and supported by the psych community.
Also, personality tests measure tendencies, please don't use exceptions to explain away your personality. Yes, personality is somewhat situation, great. Yes, Myers-Briggs isn't "science," but it is still a useful tool.
Re: On Extroverted Programmers
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
> not least because I took the test once every month for three months and got different results! That's interesting, I had the opposite experience. I must have taken the test 5 times over the years, and I got ENTP every time. I didn't expect it to be the case, but I was surprised by its precision.
Just because you took the same test five times and got the same results doesn't mean the methodology isn't pseudo-scientific. Actual psychologists have studied Myers Briggs and found that the likelihood of getting a different result on the exam after taking it more than once is about fifty-fifty, which is pretty much the definition of pseudo-science.
> doesn't mean the methodology isn't pseudo-scientific.
I didn't claim otherwise. I simply provided one data point that was different from the one expressed by the person I was replying to. I didn't claim the test was scientific or accurate. (Note: Precise != Accurate. And it was only precise in my case, not in general.)
Re: On Extroverted Programmers
#34People: Stop using Myers-Briggs to measure anything. It is an unscientific test, developed by someone with no formal training in psychology. Its results are not replicable (the same person is likely to get different results if you take the same test on different days). It is the same kind of pseudo-science as astrology. Worse, employers have been sued for giving this to their employees and sharing the results among t…
Hey, I'm fond of Myers-Briggs. It's useful, fun, and meaningful. It helps resolve interpersonal difficulties. It stimulates conversation. As for measuring, I'm always interested to see survey data on it. Way more than that other boring test I can't ever remember the name of and which I'm told is much more empirical. Just because something isn't a law of nature is no reason to suppress it. Lots of things we care about…
You could say all of those things about astrology.
There are great reasons to suppress pseudo-science, but the first and foremost reason is that it isn't true.
Re: On Extroverted Programmers
#35Making friends can be turned into an algorithm for processing inside the programmer mind. Read this 2 or 3 times and do everything it tells you to do, and you'll have people going out of their way to be your friend. http://www.amazon.com/Likeability-Factor-L-Factor-Achieve-Dr... I got the audiobook on this and listened to it twice 6 months ago, I've been following the rules religiously, and my emotional intelligence…
A Myers Briggs xxTJ will be deeply offended that the wrong L is highlighted on the book cover.
Re: On Extroverted Programmers
#36...and the rise of the brogrammer? https://www.facebook.com/getwiththebrogram
Jokes aside, I really like the 'brogramming' ethos. I feel it really embodies 'balance' in life. As the slogan puts it: "Rage at the codebase, rage at the gym, rage at the club". Programming is very much a logical and intellectual endeavour. One has to be creative, yet logically inclined. So on thise side, your mental capabilities are constantly being challenged. Staying healthy is also an important, hence 'rage at t…
"Rage" is not really the embodiment of balance.
Re: On Extroverted Programmers
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hey, I'm fond of Myers-Briggs. It's useful, fun, and meaningful. It helps resolve interpersonal difficulties. It stimulates conversation. As for measuring, I'm always interested to see survey data on it. Way more than that other boring test I can't ever remember the name of and which I'm told is much more empirical. Just because something isn't a law of nature is no reason to suppress it. Lots of things we care about…
You could say all of those things about astrology. There are great reasons to suppress pseudo-science, but the first and foremost reason is that it isn't true.
What about old science? Is that true? When scientists told women to give their babies "formula" in the 1960s instead of breast-feeding them, was that true? Or do you retroactively label it pseudo-science? It certainly had the blessing of the authorities (edit: the scientific authorities) at the time. What about the dietary fat hypothesis, currently falling apart after generations of being such dogma that people lost their jobs for questioning it? When did it go from being scientific to unscientific?
My point is that these boundaries are not nearly crisp and stable enough to bear your level of judgmentalism.
I'm guessing that in Myers-Briggs lingo, you're a J. I'm an extreme P. These two don't get along sometimes. Also, I'm an Aquarius.
Re: On Extroverted Programmers
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
You could say all of those things about astrology. There are great reasons to suppress pseudo-science, but the first and foremost reason is that it isn't true.
What about old science? Is that true? When scientists told women to give their babies "formula" in the 1960s instead of breast-feeding them, was that true? Or do you retroactively label it pseudo-science? It certainly had the blessing of the authorities (edit: the scientific authorities) at the time. What about the dietary fat hypothesis, currently falling apart after generations of being such dogma that people lost…
I label it, and you, wrong. You seem pretty OK with that. Remind me never to hire you.
Re: On Extroverted Programmers
#39At university I spent the vast majority of my time getting drunk, doing drugs and chasing girls. I then took the show on the road and did more or less the same thing in Japan for s few years. There was absolutely nothing introverted about those five years. I made a ton of friends, got into lots of excellent adventures and generally had a good time. Fast forward a few years and I'm a mid to senior level developer. I'm…
Regarding MBTI, in my experience the majority of people tend to have strong dispositions and repeatedly test into the same type. I've talked with a few coaches from the Center for Creative Leadership (who do MTBIs across hundreds of people), and their experience is the same. MTBI is about natural inclinations. For example, testing as an introvert doesn't mean one cannot be an extrovert in certain situations. Many suc…
MTBI is about natural inclinations.
MBTI is about how you answer the questions posed by the sorting test. Sure, many people are always going to test the same way. And some people will have personalities that would seem to fit the descriptions, but that's largely coincidence. Consider these questions [1]
"You are almost never late for your appointments. YES/NO"
People don't actually measure their promptness or tardiness before answering that question. They just think "yeah I tend to be on time" or "no I'm late a lot."
"It is in your nature to assume responsibility. YES/NO"
Even if you did have a good way to objectively measure assumption of responsibility, no one will actually do it on themselves before answering the question on the test.
Even questions like this:
"After prolonged socializing you feel you need to get away and be alone. YES/NO"
Not everyone is going to use the same definition of "socializing." I tend to read "socializing" and imagine a party with lots of people I don't know, where there's pressure to perform and impress and get drunk and let loose. On the other hand, some might consider socializing to sit around the house with close friends and family on Sunday afternoon with football on in the background.
Ambiguities and subjectivity are pervasive.