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The Dubai Debt Trap

economist.com

21–30 of 356 posts

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#21
post #5

All I ever hear is horror stories about this place: environmental destruction, structural racism, serious abuse of human rights, culturally hyper conservative, corrupt legal system, plus it's absurdly hot. I can't believe anyone would voluntarily go there, seems like hell on earth.

Because almost no one who moves to Dubai for a middle class job will ever experience any of the things you’ve listed except for the heat. What they do experience is earning lots of tax-free money, and a vibrant city life. Obviously those negatives are all present but less of a threat than one might think from the outside. Perhaps that seems like too much of a risk to some people. But to others, who aren’t living in “…

> Obviously those negatives are all present but less of a threat than one might think from the outside.

I doubt anybody who lived in the gulf for at least a year never been a witnness to extremely harsh treatment of debtors firsthand.

I myself knew a person who went to a debtor prison over a parking ticket.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#22
post #10

ProTip: Never ever open a credit card in the UAE, or just never deal with anybody on credit here. Cash, cash, cash only.

ProTip: "Cornelius undoubtedly committed fraud", according to the article. Never commit fraud in the UAE.

I'd expand it to never do business in the Middle East. It's just not worth it.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#23
post #5

All I ever hear is horror stories about this place: environmental destruction, structural racism, serious abuse of human rights, culturally hyper conservative, corrupt legal system, plus it's absurdly hot. I can't believe anyone would voluntarily go there, seems like hell on earth.

Because almost no one who moves to Dubai for a middle class job will ever experience any of the things you’ve listed except for the heat. What they do experience is earning lots of tax-free money, and a vibrant city life. Obviously those negatives are all present but less of a threat than one might think from the outside. Perhaps that seems like too much of a risk to some people. But to others, who aren’t living in “…

The UEA tramples on a lot of middle class people, but most don’t get any press coverage.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#24
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because almost no one who moves to Dubai for a middle class job will ever experience any of the things you’ve listed except for the heat. What they do experience is earning lots of tax-free money, and a vibrant city life. Obviously those negatives are all present but less of a threat than one might think from the outside. Perhaps that seems like too much of a risk to some people. But to others, who aren’t living in “…

The UEA tramples on a lot of middle class people, but most don’t get any press coverage.

Yes, and not only foreigners. There are plenty of poor Emiratis in fact.

This comes as a surprise to a lot of people who never been to UAE.

The percentage of uber-rich natives is grossly overestated by the popular image of the country. Nor there are that many really rich expats, unless with businesses outside of UAE, and who only come there to spend.

UAE is not a good place to make money in, but it's often a first choice for MNCs to setup in the region, as anywhere else in the region is even worse.

Only 10%-15% of the UAE population is somewhat close to American middle income standards.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#25
As a Bay Area native who moved to Abu Dhabi / Dubai roughly four years ago, I have a lot of issues with the way the UAE is portrayed across sites like Hacker News and Reddit. A lot of them are in the comments for this story, focusing on all the negatives of the country, structural racism, human rights abuse, etc and we certainly have a right to raise these things (of which I actively fight against here every day). That being said however, this young country does also have many positives to it that go unnoticed by those across the world since they're rarely reported. They may be small, but they are accomplishments nonetheless, such as a couple years ago being the "Year of Tolerance" where the gov't focused on bring inclusivity in their own way to the country, or bringing the Pope to this country on his first ever visit to the Gulf, or even the religious centers that are being built in Abu Dhabi that celebrate Jewish, Muslim and Christian history. For a country hardly 50 years old, it's come a long way. Just this year, a lot of laws such as having children out of wedlock, marijuana / alcohol, not requiring a local partner for business, etc., have all been relaxed and this is just the beginning. They've also introduced a variety of labor laws (though I don't think they're being followed by the owners of these companies, but that's a qualm for another day)

I don't want to get across that this country is good or bad, but that it's _complex_ (just like most countries). I do personally believe that the leadership of the country is trying to make a positive impact, though it's usually in ways that aren't reported in the media and... that's all I want put out there, just to bring some nuance to the conversation.

Having said all that, going back to the long-form article, I will say only one thing, debt is something that's really scary to have here since AFAIK, it's illegal in Islam, so the credit card system tends to be strangely designed and if I was ever in debt to this country or any of these Arab countries, I'd stay far away from here.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#26
post #5

All I ever hear is horror stories about this place: environmental destruction, structural racism, serious abuse of human rights, culturally hyper conservative, corrupt legal system, plus it's absurdly hot. I can't believe anyone would voluntarily go there, seems like hell on earth.

[deleted]

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#27
post #3

Mirror: https://web.archive.org/web/20220218111600/https://www.econo...

Thanks. Hoes does WBM get the page? Does the economist let it's crawlers through?

I do wonder; at some point, Google said they would penalize websites that show their crawlers something else than real visitors.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ProTip: "Cornelius undoubtedly committed fraud", according to the article. Never commit fraud in the UAE.

I'd expand it to never do business in the Middle East. It's just not worth it.

It's not worth it for you perhaps; for others, international companies, it can be very lucrative to operate in or through Dubai.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#29
post #25

As a Bay Area native who moved to Abu Dhabi / Dubai roughly four years ago, I have a lot of issues with the way the UAE is portrayed across sites like Hacker News and Reddit. A lot of them are in the comments for this story, focusing on all the negatives of the country, structural racism, human rights abuse, etc and we certainly have a right to raise these things (of which I actively fight against here every day). Th…

You wax poetically about UAE (mostly emotion, little fact), then remind the reader that it is an Islamic dictatorship.

Why would any intelligent person ever set foot there? I'd lose over half of my current rights as it stands.

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