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SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform space travel

economist.com

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Re: SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform space travel

#281

Post by Veedrac »

xoa wrote: post #61
tablespoon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The thing that's impressive to me, in addition to the sheer size of these machines, is the engines. The Raptor 2 is groundbreaking. And there's 30+ of them between both stages. It's just incredible, and there's nothing like it that's been done. I may be wrong, but isn't the reason there are so many engines on their rockets is because SpaceX isn't good at building big rocket engines?

> I may be wrong, but isn't the reason there are so many engines on their rockets is because SpaceX isn't good at building big rocket engines? No, that's completely wrong. There are challenges in running a bunch of engines, but it's critical to pull off for reusability. All rocket engines have a strict floor on how low it's possible to throttle them. Even 40-50% is quite hard, and I believe the Raptor is 40% though w…

Not only this, you have to have the ability to throttle while also being able to land if an engine fails, because Starship is going to carry people.

Re: SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform space travel

#282

Post by Veedrac »

mlindner wrote: post #60
hirundo wrote: post #25

> Mr Musk’s development philosophy is that “if things are not failing, you aren’t innovating enough.” My boss used to keep saying "move fast and break things!" Then a new guy seriously messed up and almost lost us a valuable client. The boss demanded an explanation. I said the new guy moved fast and broke things. He actually wrote that in the explanation to the client. I haven't heard that phrase from him since.

The key corollary for "move fast and break things" is "but don't do it in production". SpaceX doesn't rapidly innovate things in production. Starship is not yet in production.

Compared to oldspace they definitely do; Falcon 1 only flew a handful of times, and Falcon 9 has been continually upgraded. Musk has mentioned even the old F9 Block 5s (which are the newest block) are painful to refurbish versus the newer ones.

Re: SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform space travel

#283

Post by kisstheblade »

runnerup wrote: post #263
cma wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This from her seemed dangerously like fraud: https://www.ted.com/talks/gwynne_shotwell_spacex_s_plan_to_f... Passenger service by 2028 on starship for between an economy and business class ticket. A couple years later they confirmed they were still going for the same timeline.

I'm not a fan of Elon Musk. I can absolutely see regular passenger service on Starship by 2028. Obviously that's a very aspirational price-point but I don't see how even a strict ruling on fraud would uphold that charge.

Really? In 5 years ROCKETS will be as safe as airplanes? And as cheap? And possible to fly over cities etc (talking about Shotwells promises here)? You really think this?

Re: SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform space travel

#284

Post by kisstheblade »

emkoemko wrote: post #34

how will it be dirt cheap?

It won't. They haven't been able to get costs down in 10 years now, actually they have gone up.

And reusability has its own problems, like lowering the amount of payload by 25% (you need to save fuel for re-entry).

You can maybe get 10-20% savings if you ever get it working (see previous failed attempts...).

NOT Musk promised 100x price reduction for launches, that will never happen.

Re: SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform space travel

#285

Post by rurban »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #231
AtlasBarfed wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The military wants a C-130 payload anywhere in the world in 1 hour. Military up the wazoo in contracts. Militarization of space is inevitable, they'll want bases up there. If the payload costs are true for starship, they'll put big ones up there. Starship will represent a total paradigm change in space superiority on economics alone. I'm surprised China and Russia aren't loudly complaining about this. It would enable…

"Just wait for the private Starships. Hey they should be cheaper than megayachts." Any space rocket can turn the whitehouse, the Kremlin or 10 Downing street into a crater withing 30 minutes, with minimal chances of air defence to stoping it. If we start handing out starships to random shady conpanies registered in tax heavens, 9/11 will look like a peacefull day in comparison

Submarines also. Today

Re: SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform space travel

#286

Post by sidcool »

I think that even if Elon Musk and Gwynne Shotwell stopped everything at SpaceX right now, their contributions with Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy are enough to etch their names in history. The three Falcon heavy boosters landing is nothing short of sci-fi coming true.

Re: SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform space travel

#287

Post by ROTMetro »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #209
yazaddaruvala wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do suspect we need to find commercial enterprises to justify the Starship economics and I'm just not sure what that looks like yet. At $1 MM per launch with 100 t per launch puts Starship roughly at $10 per kg. Asteroid mining: Will be a huge industry. Especially with growing environmental concerns all around Earth. Waste can basically be disposed of very cheaply into the atmosphere or sun. Starlink, Kupier, etc…

The military wants a C-130 payload anywhere in the world in 1 hour. Military up the wazoo in contracts. Militarization of space is inevitable, they'll want bases up there. If the payload costs are true for starship, they'll put big ones up there. Starship will represent a total paradigm change in space superiority on economics alone. I'm surprised China and Russia aren't loudly complaining about this. It would enable…

Um, China is pretty vocally going after Starlink which is part of what makes this financially feasible, so it's not like they are doing nothing. And not to be all conspiracy theory but their complaint sure is being amplified on the interwebs. I think their bigger issue though is it's going to be a whole lot harder to hide things in they want to do in orbit with so many satellites up there all of a sudden.

Re: SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform space travel

#288

Post by sidcool »

kilroy123 wrote: post #6

If you're ever in the Houston area, I highly recommend going to see NASA Johnson Space Center. They have a full-size replica (?) Saturn V rocket on its side, you can see. You simply can't grasp how big these rockets are until you see it up close. It's like a tall building blasting off into space. They're humongous. I hope to one day see Starship up close in person as it takes off to space.

I have been there a decade ago and was fascinated. Space travel is literally rocket science. Can't comprehend the science and engineering behind it.

Re: SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform space travel

#289

Post by ROTMetro »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #235
discordance wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the infrastructure for rocket travel doesn’t exist... yet. That can change. We are moving from being able to crawl to walk with this new capability. What happens when we can run?

Airports do not have minimal safety distance measured in miles. Catastrophic failure of a plane causes a fire, catastrophic failure of a rocket causes a detonation the size of a small nuke.

So you are saying space ports will need to be far out from civilization, and connected to cities by some sort of high speed transport, maybe one located underground for safety reasons?

Re: SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform space travel

#290

Post by kisstheblade »

sidcool wrote: post #286

I think that even if Elon Musk and Gwynne Shotwell stopped everything at SpaceX right now, their contributions with Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy are enough to etch their names in history. The three Falcon heavy boosters landing is nothing short of sci-fi coming true.

What have these two people actually done, except lying all the time? And abusing their workers?

Also, these "magical" landings have been made 60 YEARS AGO! Go Musk! Hyperloop! FSD! Robotaxis! Semi! VTOL with pressurized air! Tesla robot! Pedo guy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39cjZTCay24

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