A 13-year-old used my artificial nose to diagnose pneumonia • Hacker News Board

Re: A 13-year-old used my artificial nose to diagnose pneumonia

#71

Post by mywittyname » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 4:52 PM UTC

I remember having an assignment like this my second year of college. It was basically an array of various smoke detector sensors wired up to a parallel port. With diverse enough sensors, you could stick a cup into a box with a fan and the sensor, and be able to tell if the cup had OJ, coke, or coffee in it using basic PCA.

Given the tools available now, I'm not surprised a smart 13yo could build something like this. Especially if the sensor itself is an off-the-shelf component with device drivers and such already available for it.

Re: A 13-year-old used my artificial nose to diagnose pneumonia

#72

Post by alexk307 » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 4:53 PM UTC

rhexs wrote: post #4

alexk307 wrote: post #2

This is what happens when you give children the tools to succeed by teaching them math and science in ways that directly relate to their world view. Obviously, this kid is very bright, but giving kids the tools to understand how the ideas they're learning can be applied in the real world is so satisfying. They aren't blinded by previous failures, or the current market, or what can and can't be done.

Maybe. It’s more like it’s what a kid’s parents do when kids can no longer be kids and are driven to start working on their college applications earlier and earlier. There’s more to life than getting into MIT.

There's more to making electronics than getting into MIT and prestigious universities. I think a lot of the users on HN like myself enjoy creating things just to create them. I don't need prestige or accolades; just build something, break it, fix it, take it apart. Some people enjoy learning how things work.

Re: A 13-year-old used my artificial nose to diagnose pneumonia

#73

Post by lern_too_spel » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 4:56 PM UTC

honkycat wrote: post #62

I am not skeptical of the kid being able to do this. Good for them! I'm sure they will grow up to be an inquisitive and brilliant member of society. However, like many, I feel like this article could be papering over... something. OK I'll just say it: Privilege. And hey! Not every kid with privilege ends up being brilliant! And he may not be privileged! But it is a lot easier to succeed when you have it. And my probl…

I say good on the parents for putting their resources to good use. A lot of them squander it away on spoiled kids, waiting for the kids to show interest in anything useful. Yes, it would be great for society if all kids have these benefits, but we will only get there when people understand that this is something worthwhile.

Re: A 13-year-old used my artificial nose to diagnose pneumonia

#74

Post by hwillis » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 5:02 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #51

hwillis wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sensor (the four gas sensors on the board) was created by a third person. The artificial nose is the TinyML model which trains on the sensor data (CO, NO2, ethanol, VOCs) to detect arbitrary scents by their signatures in those four categories. The fungal pneumonia detector wires up a whole API with azure etc. and trains the model specifically to recognize pneumonia, based on an actual science experiment which gre…

The reason why no engineer has made this yet, is because the medical data was not available to them. The innovation is in the data, not in the ML.

You are wrong. The kid GREW FUNGUS IN ARTIFICIAL LUNGS using a sterile field made out of a plastic bin with dish gloves cut into it. He didn't need medical data. Anyone could have done this- anyone with the intelligence and creativity that this kid has.

Re: A 13-year-old used my artificial nose to diagnose pneumonia

#75

Post by dkersten » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 5:03 PM UTC

Brajeshwar wrote: post #67

blitzar wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you cant do this durring a) the school day when the primary end user is not home or b) wake up at 2am and reboot it while the primary end user is asleep? Honestly, I think your kid should break out the SLA and check what compensation they get paid for prime time outages.

Yes, lesson learnt and we have agreed to the new agreement -- no more primetime outages -- planned or otherwise.

I mean, another solution is to give warning at regular intervals beforehand (day, hour, ten minutes, 1 minute perhaps). Basically planned outages with ample warning. Of course, avoiding prime time planned outages is always good in any scenario and I'm sure goes a long way to keep all clients happy.

With that said, I doubt your 13 year old daughter client is actually paying for that level of service, so... ;-)

Re: A 13-year-old used my artificial nose to diagnose pneumonia

#76

Post by dkersten » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #25

The main invention is in the electronic nose. The kid just did the plumbing of connecting it to some ML library. Of course, the electronic nose itself is a work of plumbing too, where some existing gas sensors are put on a pcb. In short, nothing seems really new here, but the application is interesting. I guess it's always interesting when people start looking for correlations in data and get some positive results, s…

I think the news is less "13 year old revolutionized medicine" and more "13 year old used ingenuity to create cool thing". Or at least, that's how I think it should be read. Focusing too much on the end result is likely not the best outcome because, while its a working prototype, many interesting prototypes never make it to fully end user capable system and there are a lot of hurdles to overcome to get it there.

But that doesn't take away from the fact that its a cool project and the kid did a great job in coming up with it and executing on it! Its definitely far beyond what most people achieve, nevermind 13 year olds.

Re: A 13-year-old used my artificial nose to diagnose pneumonia

#77

Post by blitzar » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

dkersten wrote: post #75

Brajeshwar wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, lesson learnt and we have agreed to the new agreement -- no more primetime outages -- planned or otherwise.

I mean, another solution is to give warning at regular intervals beforehand (day, hour, ten minutes, 1 minute perhaps). Basically planned outages with ample warning. Of course, avoiding prime time planned outages is always good in any scenario and I'm sure goes a long way to keep all clients happy. With that said, I doubt your 13 year old daughter client is actually paying for that level of service, so... ;-)

I believe the SLA for a 13 year old is 110% uptime, with consequences being The end of the world.

I am not a lawyer so feel free to go to court claiming that 100% uptime is the limits of mathematics or that the world will not end if is not accessible for 5 minutes on a tuesday afternoon. Its a losing case every time, best just to settle up the case quietly with an extra scoop of icecream or some robux and cut your losses.

Re: A 13-year-old used my artificial nose to diagnose pneumonia

#78

Post by wesleywt » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 5:18 PM UTC

cmaneu wrote: post #43

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> turns out to be bogus Sometimes very bogus, even totally fake example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otjvUz7qKXc ('free energy' device, "invented" by a kid, debunked by electroboom)

Did you watch the video linked in the article?

Specific, sensitivity, limits of detection and limits of quantitation is more important than a video.

Re: A 13-year-old used my artificial nose to diagnose pneumonia

#79

Post by SubiculumCode » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 5:19 PM UTC

dkersten wrote: post #76

amelius wrote: post #25

The main invention is in the electronic nose. The kid just did the plumbing of connecting it to some ML library. Of course, the electronic nose itself is a work of plumbing too, where some existing gas sensors are put on a pcb. In short, nothing seems really new here, but the application is interesting. I guess it's always interesting when people start looking for correlations in data and get some positive results, s…

I think the news is less "13 year old revolutionized medicine" and more "13 year old used ingenuity to create cool thing" . Or at least, that's how I think it should be read. Focusing too much on the end result is likely not the best outcome because, while its a working prototype, many interesting prototypes never make it to fully end user capable system and there are a lot of hurdles to overcome to get it there. But…

This is a story about inspiration and achievement. Objective facts are less important than the message, IMO, especially after decades of "try-hard" being ridiculed in the U.S.

Re: A 13-year-old used my artificial nose to diagnose pneumonia

#80

Post by wesleywt » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 5:22 PM UTC

hwillis wrote: post #33

amelius wrote: post #25

The main invention is in the electronic nose. The kid just did the plumbing of connecting it to some ML library. Of course, the electronic nose itself is a work of plumbing too, where some existing gas sensors are put on a pcb. In short, nothing seems really new here, but the application is interesting. I guess it's always interesting when people start looking for correlations in data and get some positive results, s…

The sensor (the four gas sensors on the board) was created by a third person. The artificial nose is the TinyML model which trains on the sensor data (CO, NO2, ethanol, VOCs) to detect arbitrary scents by their signatures in those four categories. The fungal pneumonia detector wires up a whole API with azure etc. and trains the model specifically to recognize pneumonia, based on an actual science experiment which gre…

It is great that the kid is involved and interested in these technologies. Whether it works is another issue. You are going to need metrics such a LODs, LOQs, sensitivity and specificity to determine if this beats the gold standard tests.