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Avoid the Apple App Store

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Re: Avoid the Apple App Store

#151

Post by dcow »

Humdeee wrote: post #128
dcow wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the developer made a very clear case as to why they do not have a simple copycat experience. Please read the essay.

No, it's not a clear case. That's what the discussion is about. It's overemphasizing the differing features, and Apple seems to also think so. What you and OP think is evidently not what Apple and many other thinks. Please at least attempt to understand another perspective.

It can’t be a copy if it offers distinct features, which the OP lays out factually. It’s not arguable. It’s a fact that OPs game supports languages that the original web app doesn’t. That alone even ignoring the other distinctions should indicate that it is not a clone. You can’t just say “that feature doesn't matter to me because I don’t speak Swedish so it doesn't exist”. You’re deliberately ignoring reality and it’s frankly kinda “racist”. Swedish people can’t play Wordle in their language on iOS because it would be a cheap knockoff of an English website and somehow detract from your appstore browsing and general mobile platform experience? Jeeze…

Re: Avoid the Apple App Store

#152

Post by whizzter »

I think the main lesson here is to not to jump onto trains copying the latest trend.

As for double-standards of later clones being allowed, it's probably just that this app got caught in the initial copycat-sweep with some rejection-notice visible for reviewers that will be re-used for later updates and unless fundamentally different it isn't going to pass. Later apps probably pass since they don't care adding new notes.

It might suck, but it's how the world works.

Re: Avoid the Apple App Store

#153

Post by dcow »

whizzter wrote: post #152

I think the main lesson here is to not to jump onto trains copying the latest trend. As for double-standards of later clones being allowed, it's probably just that this app got caught in the initial copycat-sweep with some rejection-notice visible for reviewers that will be re-used for later updates and unless fundamentally different it isn't going to pass. Later apps probably pass since they don't care adding new no…

No! That’s not the lesson. Swedish people cant play Wordle. Period. This contribution to the space brings an existing english-only experience to Swedish people. It’s by definition NOT A COPY. It’s a derivative work at best which the original Wordle also is. To write this off as a fad and say only English speakers get to experience Wordle is frankly racist.

Re: Avoid the Apple App Store

#154

Post by Humdeee »

dcow wrote: post #151
Humdeee wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not a clear case. That's what the discussion is about. It's overemphasizing the differing features, and Apple seems to also think so. What you and OP think is evidently not what Apple and many other thinks. Please at least attempt to understand another perspective.

It can’t be a copy if it offers distinct features, which the OP lays out factually. It’s not arguable. It’s a fact that OPs game supports languages that the original web app doesn’t. That alone even ignoring the other distinctions should indicate that it is not a clone. You can’t just say “that feature doesn't matter to me because I don’t speak Swedish so it doesn't exist”. You’re deliberately ignoring reality and it…

Unfortunately, they're obviously not distinct enough in Apple's eyes. Also, Swedish or any nationality is not a race, I would drop that train of thought altogether.

We have no indication of the many, many other copycat apps that were let through may also already support Swedish. So if that low hanging fruit is covered, scratch that as a distinct feature...

Re: Avoid the Apple App Store

#155

Post by sleepybrett »

amelius wrote: post #126
mrtranscendence wrote: post #107

Unlike many people here, I'm not ideologically opposed to the idea of a walled-garden phone (though my preference would be to have the ability to sideload). But it kills me just how poorly Apple is behaving here. It's like they don't care at all about pissing off the developers that help make their platform attractive, and they'll belligerently go on not caring even as government agencies around the world gear up to…

> I'm not ideologically opposed to the idea of a walled-garden phone (though my preference would be to have the ability to sideload). The App-Store is, in this context, merely a Content Filter. So why not allow multiple content filters?

Because it creates customer confusion and anger when they hit the genius bar with a phone that is bricked because the customer used a non-apple appstore to install software that resulted in a bricked phone. It further causes apple support increased support costs when they have to prove that it wasn't their fault.

Perhaps if apple had approval on those third-party appstores and held them to a standard and charged pushed those support charges onto them..

Re: Avoid the Apple App Store

#156

Post by Apocryphon »

mojzu wrote: post #146
Apocryphon wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That concern of Facebook or Google launching their own third party app stores and being successful at it are probably overblown. At the very least, even if they did do that, they would be unlikely to take their apps off of the existing App Store. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30280457

The points in that post make sense to me, I'm not too worried about the major players breaking away from the app store (although if it's anything like streaming/TV some may try it). I think the more likely scenario is that some smaller App developers break away from the store for one reason or another, and then users are asked to install yet more app stores/use yet more payment providers when it provides no benefit t…

> I think the more likely scenario is that some smaller App developers break away from the store for one reason or another, and then users are asked to install yet more app stores/use yet more payment providers when it provides no benefit to them, or risk losing their Apps/data.

I think that there would be as much friction against smaller developers doing that, as against the big players. Same headache for users of having to set up and deal with multiple memberships and payment methods would still apply. The smaller indie devs would be disinclined to do that for the most part. What will end up happening is that there might be one or two major alternative app stores at most, and probably well-curated by the most dedicated and motivated of volunteers. On Android, that exists with F-Droid, which is a useful case study of how an independent third party App store for hobbyists can arise. These niches will exist for those who choose to pursue them but users will not be “forced” to go to them as they will not need those stores.

Your point about streaming/TV apps make sense, like the major gaming publishers, they both have unique content that might be the most compelling reason for users to pursue them, and the most motivation to get away from the 30% cut.

Re: Avoid the Apple App Store

#157

Post by vmception »

> But in the end, I get that this specific case mainly just concerns me.

Pragmatic, but this defeatist attitude for app stores should be reserved for 2012, ten years ago.

Many people know of this problem by now, and its time to end their reign.

Re: Avoid the Apple App Store

#158

Post by jonatanheyman »

threatofrain wrote: post #150
mrtranscendence wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t mind the App Store removing shameless copies. But games with distinct features (eg offering Swedish) and which don’t use anyone else’s intellectual property should probably not face such an uphill battle. Further, they only pay such attention to Wordle clones because they were publicly called out on it. Other clones, even ones that violate IP laws, still get a free pass. And it’s not as if they’ve stopped all…

I'm not sure there's an easy solution here. I don't like copycats for more than one reason, but I don't think it's clear what criteria Apple should apply to determine whether an app is sufficiently distinct. If we considered language differences as sufficiently distinct, would that also mean allowing companies that watch for any new interesting idea and replicate it in language X?

I'd argue that the language of the dictionary is far more critical for a word game than just the UI language of a random app.

Re: Avoid the Apple App Store

#160

Post by jillesvangurp »

mrtranscendence wrote: post #107

Unlike many people here, I'm not ideologically opposed to the idea of a walled-garden phone (though my preference would be to have the ability to sideload). But it kills me just how poorly Apple is behaving here. It's like they don't care at all about pissing off the developers that help make their platform attractive, and they'll belligerently go on not caring even as government agencies around the world gear up to…

Apple deserves the inevitable government intervention that it seems to be begging for with its arbitrariness and blatant anti competitive behavior.
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