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How to Force Facebook into Handing Over their Secret Tracking Data

europe-v-facebook.org

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Re: How to Force Facebook into Handing Over their Secret Tracking Data

#61

Post by sneak »

_delirium wrote: post #60
nextparadigms wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Note: According to facebook’s privacy policy, messages on facebook can not be deleted anymore. If you click on ‘delete’ the messages will only be invisible to you. US law enforcement agencies can access this information at there own liking, without judicial review." That last one is scary indeed. People were arguing a while ago whether these companies should keep data only for 6 months, or for a year, or 18 months -…

It also seems to indicate a deliberate quasi-law-enforcement role being played by Facebook. If Facebook handed over data when presented with warrants, the "without judicial review" wouldn't be true. That can only be true if they're purposely partnering with law enforcement, to voluntarily offer them data that courts haven't requested. Reduces any qualms I might have about calls for Facebook to be regulated as a publi…

It's not Facebook's call. The USA PATRIOT Act allows for National Security Letters, or NSLs, that legally function like warrants but require no judicial review. The US government uses them over 60,000 times per year. The law allowing them turns ten years old next month.

Re: How to Force Facebook into Handing Over their Secret Tracking Data

#62

Post by danielrhodes »

I don't find any of this surprising. All of the data Facebook has on me I have given to them. Just like anywhere else on the internet or not, if you don't want somebody to know about something then don't share or keep a record of it. Privacy is not absolute, it is contextual.

Re: How to Force Facebook into Handing Over their Secret Tracking Data

#63

Post by forensic »

toadstone wrote: post #46

I don't understand this community. I thought you were wolves, but here you are taking the part of the sheep. Instead of being outraged, you should be trying to get your own piece of the data pie. Every single web startup is doing exactly that.

Most computer scientists want to help the world. Including those who believe in the free market.

Re: How to Force Facebook into Handing Over their Secret Tracking Data

#64

Post by forensic »

toadstone wrote: post #55
Helianthus wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand communities. People acting in a group will act similarly and be derided by you as 'sheep.' It it is the type of thing that motivates group action that determines whether you think group members are 'wolves.' Wolves move in packs, too.

It was a predator/prey metaphor, not a individual/group metaphor.

It's out of date. The planet has enough resources for everyone. Humans do not need to prey on our own species.

Re: How to Force Facebook into Handing Over their Secret Tracking Data

#65

Post by abcd_f »

tripzilch wrote: post #48
avar wrote: post #34

Facebook knows too much about us, let's all send them a scanned copy of our passport!

You're allowed to (and should) black out your photograph and your social security number, they don't need those for ID. Only your government, your employer and a list of government-sanctioned organisations can require social security numbers for ID purposes. the rules for photo ID are even more strict. Additionally you should write in big letters over the scan "Request to access Facebook Data ", so that nobody else c…

> Additionally you should write in big letters over the scan "Request to access Facebook Data ", so that nobody else can use the scan of your ID-card for anything else.

This serves no purpose as it is trivial to 'shop these big letters out of the image.

Re: How to Force Facebook into Handing Over their Secret Tracking Data

#66

Post by alastairpat »

ldd- wrote: post #15

I have a dual citizenship . . . U.S./France. While I live in the U.S., I may try this with my French passport.

I'm dual Australian/UK and just tried it with my British passport (and Australian address).

Almost immediately I got an email saying that "Unfortunately, we won’t be able to respond to your email directly, as this form is only applicable in certain jurisdictions." Might try again when I'm back over Christmas.

Edit: On inspection of the Facebook T&C page, it says I'm contracted to Facebook Ireland, so I'm not sure what the email's about.

Re: How to Force Facebook into Handing Over their Secret Tracking Data

#67

Post by jonknee »

nak3d wrote: post #59
sek wrote: post #13

Unbelievable: http://europe-v-facebook.org/EN/Data_Pool/data_pool.html They delete sh*t, if you delete your posts they don't remove them from their databases. This makes me really angry, there is a reason why i delete this stuff. I can't believe this, they have a responsibility. Edit: WTF http://europe-v-facebook.org/EN/Data_Pool/data_pool.html#Mac... This is maybe the most frightening: http://europe-v-facebook.org/E…

Heads up: Google does this with Gmail, too. http://news.cnet.com/2100-1047_3-6050295.html - "Judge grants subpoena and orders that all e-mail messages, including deleted ones, be divulged."

You can be asked for anything, that doesn't mean you have it. As the article you linked states, Google's privacy policy notes deleted information may live on in backups. This is common sense, otherwise they would have to touch every backup on a delete, which besides being very risky (one bug away from disaster), would mean having to go through offline tape archives of everyone's mail. If that were the case it would be prohibitively expensive to allow anyone to delete.

The question is if they have the ability/requirement to go sifting through the old backups for requested data.

http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/gmail-back-soon-for-ev...

Re: How to Force Facebook into Handing Over their Secret Tracking Data

#68

Post by toadstone »

forensic wrote: post #64
toadstone wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a predator/prey metaphor, not a individual/group metaphor.

It's out of date. The planet has enough resources for everyone. Humans do not need to prey on our own species.

Predator/prey is also a metaphor. People aren't actually being eaten. They are voluntarily sharing data that is used to provide them with a service that they want. I'm so depressed that I have to spell everything out.

Re: How to Force Facebook into Handing Over their Secret Tracking Data

#69

Post by Bud »

sneak wrote: post #61
_delirium wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also seems to indicate a deliberate quasi-law-enforcement role being played by Facebook. If Facebook handed over data when presented with warrants, the "without judicial review" wouldn't be true. That can only be true if they're purposely partnering with law enforcement, to voluntarily offer them data that courts haven't requested. Reduces any qualms I might have about calls for Facebook to be regulated as a publi…

It's not Facebook's call. The USA PATRIOT Act allows for National Security Letters, or NSLs, that legally function like warrants but require no judicial review. The US government uses them over 60,000 times per year. The law allowing them turns ten years old next month.

Precisely. If you want to place blame, it goes squarely on the Bush Administration. (And yes, I'm sure I'll be down-voted for saying that, but it's still unquestionably, uncontroversially, non-debatably true.) If you want this fixed, it has to be fixed politically at a federal level.

Re: How to Force Facebook into Handing Over their Secret Tracking Data

#70

Post by _delirium »

sneak wrote: post #61
_delirium wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also seems to indicate a deliberate quasi-law-enforcement role being played by Facebook. If Facebook handed over data when presented with warrants, the "without judicial review" wouldn't be true. That can only be true if they're purposely partnering with law enforcement, to voluntarily offer them data that courts haven't requested. Reduces any qualms I might have about calls for Facebook to be regulated as a publi…

It's not Facebook's call. The USA PATRIOT Act allows for National Security Letters, or NSLs, that legally function like warrants but require no judicial review. The US government uses them over 60,000 times per year. The law allowing them turns ten years old next month.

It'd be interesting to know if that covers 100% of data releases to the state. Does Facebook release data to law enforcement in cases other than either: 1) pursuant to a warrant; or 2) compelled by a National Security Letter? I would guess yes, but I'd be interested in a solid statement either way.
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