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A new wave of Linux applications

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Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#451

Post by _2paq »

chrismorgan wrote: post #381
pinephoneguy wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite thing about Gnome is that I don't have to use it. It's there so that the subsystems get used by normal people and bugs get hammered out and I can do the same thing with a small shell wrapper.

My least favourite thing about GNOME is that it has co-opted GTK and sabotaged it so that even determined developers stand no chance of achieving native look and feel on other platforms and desktop environments. The G in GTK now ( de facto , not de jure ) stands for GNOME. (Expressed otherwise: I kind of have to use parts of GNOME because it has infected GTK and it’s much more difficult to avoid GTK than to avoid the…

With the advent of libadwaita, GTK really is GNOME toolkit. Most advocates are really deceptive when they talk about this and say GTK4 is agnostic to platforms but I haven't come across a single non-trivial GTK4 app that isn't based on libadwaita. Even LibreOffice is becoming a libadwaita app.

The GUI ecosystem on Linux is mostly dead. I'm trying to switch to CLI and TUI apps for all of my tasks. If they don't exist, I'll try to create them.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#452

Post by asddubs »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #308
asddubs wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, the point is to develop on it so that future becomes possible.

Yes, but if it's to address the needs of a real user and not a spherical user in a vacuum, the phone has to be able to handle some rudimentary functionality in the meantime so developers can dogfood what they made. Few developers will carry two phones all the time.

well, the hardware has to exist to develop it, it's a chicken and egg situation. We're clearly in the very early baby step phase here

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#453

Post by kombine »

Sophistifunk wrote: post #419
mappu wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

QML is practically electron - it's runtime interpreted declarative UI plus a Javascript engine. QML still has only rudimentary support for AOT compilation. Both the old qmlcompiler and the new qmlsc compiler are commercial-only: https://www.qt.io/blog/the-new-qtquick-compiler-technology . LGPL users only get the interpreter. Widgets is still the 'Real Qt'. Some very modern, responsive-layout desktop apps like Telegra…

> practically electron - it's runtime interpreted declarative UI plus a Javascript engine Except, none of that is what's wrong with Electron. What's wrong with Electron is the bloat inherent in being an entire web browser, and the fact that the DOM+CSS is terrible for UI development.

I'm so glad someone said it. I have long stopped working in GUI space, but I remember how horrible HTML/CSS is for app development and how great and flexible Qt was. Even more frustrating seeing where the industry is going now with Electron.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#454

Post by kombine »

29athrowaway wrote: post #429
seltzered_ wrote: post #18

This could be less about device convergence and more about UX improvements and design coherence among apps. Some examples of what's been happening: - Touchpad gestures through various efforts: https://linuxtouchpad.org - Gnome: libAdwaita: https://blogs.gnome.org/alexm/2021/12/31/libadwaita-1-0/ - Core workflows getting better first-class approaches rather than being another app to install: (e.g. screenshots & screen…

You can use FreeOffice instead of LibreOffice, it has a more refined UI. https://www.freeoffice.com/en/

Is this closed source?

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#455

Post by aerique »

floren wrote: post #36

These applications look really pretty and all, but for my selfish purposes, I just really want real goddamn scrollbars back. I use a mouse that doesn't have a scroll wheel, but for the life of me I've been unable to figure out how to make applications like Firefox just give me a real scroll bar on the side of the window that's thick enough to grab without fiddly pixel-hunting.

Those modern, 1-pixel wide, scrollbars that only expand when you manage to hover over them are a pox on usability. And I say this as someone with a mouse with scrollwheel.

They make it hard to see the size of a document and as you said: operating the scrollbar is fiddly. You can't just grab it. First you have to make it expand, then you have to move the mouse again to grab it, but don't move the mouse too much or the scrollbar will shrink again!

This is on both Linux and Windows. I have no idea what it is like on OSX.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#456

Post by ZeWaren »

floren wrote: post #36

These applications look really pretty and all, but for my selfish purposes, I just really want real goddamn scrollbars back. I use a mouse that doesn't have a scroll wheel, but for the life of me I've been unable to figure out how to make applications like Firefox just give me a real scroll bar on the side of the window that's thick enough to grab without fiddly pixel-hunting.

As a big fan of keyboards with trackpoints/pointing-sticks, I completely agree. 1px scrollbars are a pain to use.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#457

Post by iostream24 »

Re: missing toolkit for less capable devices.

Fltk. There’s a lovely rust crate rs-fltk too.

Fltk is stack-based (no heap allocation) and parents own their children. When a parent window goes out of scope, poof, memory cleaned up.

Fltk is also easy to use. In C and C++ land there’s fltk-config utility that will automagically set compiler and linker flags etc. There’s a lovely fltk book that the rust crate links to in its extensive documentation.

There are plenty of even lower resource options like littleVGL, which only needs a drawing routine.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#458

Post by GoblinSlayer »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #443
kodah wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

libadwaita and Kirigami are huge improvements for the desktop app ecosystem from what I've seen as a user. When I started to delve into desktop applications I quickly realized there's a couple hurdles I face: 1. QT was an ecosystem shock to me. I barely knew what to do to get started and got lost easily. 2. Do these applications work outside of Linux; more directly, do they have dynamic dependencies? From my experien…

You wrote: > This is surprising to me. It is the gold standard for cross-platform desktop applications. (Readers: Please note that I used "cross-platform" and "desktop" _together_. Yes, I know there are plenty of other GUI frameworks that cover other categories.) The amount of official and unofficial documentation, code samples, and Q&A for Qt is simply mind boggling. Did you not find these docs helpful? Or maybe you…

More like C++ hates everyone except for C++ compilers.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#459

Post by iostream24 »

asddubs wrote: post #119
dkarl wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlabeled icons are terrible. I use Gmail more than any other application outside of dev tools like my editor and my terminal, and I use every single one of the message operations (archive, snooze, add as task, report spam, etc.) at least occasionally. After a month with a new work Gmail account I realized I was still waiting for the tooltip to pop up before clicking the buttons, just to make sure of what I was click…

I still use the html gmail, that's getting harder to access all the time (and which google now just straight up ignores being set as your default view, and gives you the javascript view anyway unless you manipulate the URL)

Me too! I hate this.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#460

Post by selfhoster11 »

voltaireodactyl wrote: post #400
selfhoster11 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Expert Mouse costs a lot, lot more than a simple trackball. And my subjective feeling is that it's actually less ergonomic than the cheaper Logitech I've got.

If you’re open to spending about the same (about $10 more), then the Logitech MX Ergo might be exactly what you’re after. https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/mice/mx-ergo-wireles...

I cannot use that kind of trackball. It relies on actuation with my thumbs, and it hasn't worked out very well in the ones I tried. I prefer "ambidextrous" ones with the ball in the middle.
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