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A new wave of Linux applications

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Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#321

Post by zelphirkalt »

moron4hire wrote: post #17
getcrunk wrote: post #8

One of the biggest drawbacks to me about Linux is the aesthetic quality. This gives me alot of hope. As the author said this might really well be a turning point.

I've been really happy with Cinnamon on Linux Mint with the MintY-Dark themes.

I just switched back to XFCE on my desktop, because panel launchers cannot be properly configured in a simple way. Too bad usability made all the good looks useless. And I feel a renewed assuredness, that XFCE is the most productive DE for me. I had it configured in 10 minutes and it does everything I want in the way I want. Also XFCE these days can also look nicely.

Still, usability (and that includes being able to configure things easily) is king and I cannot stand it, if I cannot configure annoyances away.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#322

Post by kitsunesoba »

jamesgeck0 wrote: post #310
kitsunesoba wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some cases badly designed themes (like dark gray labels on black backgrounds) are the culprit, but most often it’s a result of the app developers hard coding colors in their UI elements assuming all users will be using a similar theme. That’s not only bad for custom theme users, it’s bad for accessibility since there’s no way for increased contrast modes to modify the hard coded colors. Apps really just shouldn’t…

- Gnome includes high contrast and dark modes and encourages app developers to test against them. - Requiring apps not to use custom colors alone won’t fix it. Any bespoke UI element an app includes is at risk of breakage when a custom theme redefines the entire world. https://blogs.gnome.org/tbernard/2018/10/15/restyling-apps-a...

I build bespoke UI elements for iOS apps all the time and building them in such a way that they look and function correctly not only across light/dark and accessibility modes but also future OS versions is not that difficult, and with how they’re built I don’t see them breaking even if iOS took on a radically different appearance. They might not match perfectly but usability will not be impacted.

If this is not reasonably possible with GTK, then it seems pretty clearly like a weakness of how GTK handles themes. Personally, I believe that CSS is ill-suited for the task and is responsible for many of the issues depicted in that blog post.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#323

Post by selfhoster11 »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #224
selfhoster11 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude is why we can no longer have stuff that doesn't only come in "light theme" or "dark theme". I consider this a regression. Let me theme my damn computer the way I want. It's called a Personal computer for a reason.

It is silly that dark mode isn't regarded the same as just switching themes. Forcing its adoption however breaks dependency on non-themable components so its popularity is still a net benefit.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to have any measure of control at all. It's just that I'm frustrated that we had infinitely more capable theming system already in place, and it was broken.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#324

Post by selfhoster11 »

viraptor wrote: post #291
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is silly that dark mode isn't regarded the same as just switching themes. Forcing its adoption however breaks dependency on non-themable components so its popularity is still a net benefit.

There's a difference between "we'll test and support two color schemes" and "we'll design ui with parametrised colors, shapes and text sizes which can adjust to any change and still be usable". If we settle on bright/dark/colorblind mode selectors that everyone expects to be supported, I'm happy. I've seen themes in the past and there was always a few apps which just can't resize elements in the expected way, or the…

Ok, then don't support it. But don't patronise me. Don't tell me I couldn't possibly wield the power of recolouring a piece of UI without hurting myself, and deny me the chance to even try.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#325

Post by derac »

tormeh wrote: post #164
floren wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use the acme text editor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acme_(text_editor) for work every day. It makes heavy use of mouse chords, so I need 3 real buttons on the mouse, and it's hard to find a mouse with 3 real buttons and a scrollwheel which doesn't get in the way of the buttons. I've got a Kensington Expert Mouse trackball which works pretty well, but at the end of the day an old Logitech PS/2 mouse plugged into…

Depends by what you mean by "real buttons" but my first thought was that 99% of gaming mice will have at least 3 buttons and a scrollwheel. Often it's closer to 10 buttons. This one has 20 buttons (including 3 big ones and a scrollwheel): https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/gaming-mice/g600-mm...

I was also going to suggest this. I have used a lot mouses and this one is my go-to. It's well built and priced. It definitely has 3 "real" buttons.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#326

Post by smoldesu »

bitcharmer wrote: post #68
smoldesu wrote: post #12

History is back around to repeating itself. I'm an avid Linux user (and even a developer who uses GTK pretty regularly), but the recent developments surrounding GNOME, Flatpak and their related libraries has not made me optimistic for the future of Linux applications. GTK4 is really bad. It launched with horrible text rendering issues (still unfixed, 10+ months later), broke compatibility with a number of basic featu…

I've been a gnome user for well over a decade. What's common to hear from people like you who have a good level of understanding the ecosystem and the community is that Gnome developers consistently make shitty design decisions and refuse to take input from a wider audience. What is the reason for no group emerging, forking gnome and doing it the right way? I'd actually pay to support such efforts.

> What is the reason for no group emerging, forking gnome and doing it the right way? I'd actually pay to support such efforts.

That's basically what happened with XFCE, MATE, Cinnamon and Budgie, the rest of the userbase is pretty contented with other desktops like Plasma that can fill most of the same gaps.

With that being said, I too would fund a GTK2 or GTK3 fork if I could be promised developers who don't swing their ego around like a sledgehammer and refuse to apologize when things break. The GNOME project is starting to be the albatross of Linux development, and while I'm happy to develop with GTK3 ad-infinitum, I do hope that a fork emerges from someone more capable (and with more free time) than me. Come to think of it, it's kinda crazy how most modern DEs are made just because of how tired people are running the GNOME treadmill.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#327

Post by jamiek88 »

dkarl wrote: post #59
asddubs wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still dislike the gnome3 title bar with the icons. As you say, unlabelled mystery meat and hamburger menus. I'll admit, part of my dislike for the new title bars is probably irrationally rooted in just wanting things to stay like they were on windows 98 when I first became familiar with computers, forever, and never to diverge too much from that. But those unlabelled icons, they really do puzzle and frustrate me. O…

Unlabeled icons are terrible. I use Gmail more than any other application outside of dev tools like my editor and my terminal, and I use every single one of the message operations (archive, snooze, add as task, report spam, etc.) at least occasionally. After a month with a new work Gmail account I realized I was still waiting for the tooltip to pop up before clicking the buttons, just to make sure of what I was click…

I have the same gmail issues and didn’t realize you could change to text labels!

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#328

Post by wildrhythms »

wink wrote: post #245
eric4smith wrote: post #205

Until there is as “simple” to use an app like Preview on the Mac, most of these new generation apps are garbage. I’ve just switched to Ubuntu on a workstation I have lying around. And man, is it hard to use for just normal everyday use. Yes, it has the basics covered, but like many others my job has a lot of simple image manipulation related stuff. Convert pdf to png. Assemble multiple images into a pdf. Quickly shar…

Trying my best not to sound like a raving Linux zealot, but what you see as normal productivity stuff I may not have done... ever. Converting a PDF to a png? Why? Maybe IrfanView could do that, it's what I've been using on Windows for any conversion since ACDSee went out of fashion... I've never seen a GUI tool that works as flawlessly as pdftk. Yes, it's CLI, but it works better than anything I ever encountered. Scr…

Have you never needed to annotate/sign a PDF? On Mac OS just open Preview (the sane default for PDFs), use the annotate tools. There's even a built-in UI for "scanning" a signature via the front-facing camera, the software automatically cuts out the background so you have a signature to drop on the page. Save and the PDF is signed. Trying to do this on Linux requires moving a mountain.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#329

Post by ognarb »

mappu wrote: post #210
Tmpod wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Qt (QML/QtQuick; Widgets are no linger the preferred method afaik) you have qmetaobjects-rs, which is reeally nice.

QML is practically electron - it's runtime interpreted declarative UI plus a Javascript engine. QML still has only rudimentary support for AOT compilation. Both the old qmlcompiler and the new qmlsc compiler are commercial-only: https://www.qt.io/blog/the-new-qtquick-compiler-technology . LGPL users only get the interpreter. Widgets is still the 'Real Qt'. Some very modern, responsive-layout desktop apps like Telegra…

qmlcompiler is open source and the new qmlsc is also open source. It's just the extensions that helps making your qml code compatible with the new compiler that isn't open source. This is indeed annoying but not everything is commercial only.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#330

Post by eric4smith »

wink wrote: post #245
eric4smith wrote: post #205

Until there is as “simple” to use an app like Preview on the Mac, most of these new generation apps are garbage. I’ve just switched to Ubuntu on a workstation I have lying around. And man, is it hard to use for just normal everyday use. Yes, it has the basics covered, but like many others my job has a lot of simple image manipulation related stuff. Convert pdf to png. Assemble multiple images into a pdf. Quickly shar…

Trying my best not to sound like a raving Linux zealot, but what you see as normal productivity stuff I may not have done... ever. Converting a PDF to a png? Why? Maybe IrfanView could do that, it's what I've been using on Windows for any conversion since ACDSee went out of fashion... I've never seen a GUI tool that works as flawlessly as pdftk. Yes, it's CLI, but it works better than anything I ever encountered. Scr…

That’s because you’re not a “normal” office productivity user or even online creator working with just normal customers needing normal docs, files, and normal staff that you need to share normal stuff with.
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