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Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

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Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#61

Post by ghaff »

LoveGracePeace wrote: post #30
ignoramous wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point in AWS' life, enterprise sales is king. Not surprising that there's shades of Oracle / Microsoft in them. May be, Google hired Oracle #2, Thomas Kurian, to head GCP for similar reasons. Like it or not, Oracle-sized shadow looms large over BigCloud.

It surprises me when people lump Oracle (or AWS for that matter) in with the likes of Microsoft.

Why? They're all enterprise software companies. They participate in open source to greater or lesser degrees. They seem absolutely part of the same category. This isn't either positive or negative commentary but just observation of what they do as businesses.

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#62

Post by JoshTriplett »

skrtskrt wrote: post #46
Sebb767 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now, is there a way to solve that and have the benefits of FOSS? The answer is simple - no. Either your product is fully free and you accept that people can fork it, even Amazon, or you choose a restrictive license. You can't make "free" (as in libre) compatible with "but". I can totally see that you think this is unfair, but they did allow it and they were perfectly happy when being FOSS brought them market share.…

If everyone stomps their feet and says "there's no solution, otherwise it's not OSS!" then the end result is only going to be a lot less open-source software.

The end result may be that there's a little bit more proprietary software; so be it, people could already make proprietary software. We'll still have plenty of Open Source software that's actually Open Source. That's better than losing Open Source altogether.

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#63

Post by nostrebored »

sdesol wrote: post #23
TSiege wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be curious to see what happens as well. I ended up going with Opensearch since I use AWS. I figured I'm already locked in to that environment anyways, so why not

Somebody that does consulting work with Elasticsearch mentioned that they had some pretty innovative features in the pipeline and these are the things that can really pull people away from OpenSearch. It could also be that, people only really want basic search functionality so who knows right :-)

I’m increasingly pessimistic on ES as a solution. Everyone is coming to eat their lunch. APM? Datadog. Product search? Algolia.

I think the next wave of search tech will be

1. Leveraging automated ingestion optimization.

2. Capable of searching across mixed media: text, audio, images to start out with. This is only possible because of optimized ingestion. The ingestion layer will perform vectorization of the inputs. The vectors will be the entires stored in inverted indices.

3. A great jump from two to an optimized data store for searching mixed media.

People obsessing over elastic/splunk features are lost. Nobody will care in 5 years. Both will be legacy enterprise tech.

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#64

Post by skrtskrt »

owenmarshall wrote: post #58
skrtskrt wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, you’re leading with the definition-of-FOSS argument. Step back from FOSS for a second. I think most people would agree that there’s somewhat of a moral issue with just taking someone else’s open source software and just hosting it and making billions, with nothing for the creators, because you are a megacorp who is good at hosting. Now, is there a way to solve that and have the benefits of FOSS? Both Mongo and…

you know that responding to comments tends to make a discussion flow, rather than stealing all our work for your own comment, incorporating them without credit? ;-)

Just figured since there are so many forks reproducing the same work, I would merge the comments upstream to meet the needs of the community ;)

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#65

Post by Dylan16807 »

growse wrote: post #41
skrtskrt wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, you’re leading with the definition-of-FOSS argument. Step back from FOSS for a second. I think most people would agree that there’s somewhat of a moral issue with just taking someone else’s open source software and just hosting it and making billions, with nothing for the creators, because you are a megacorp who is good at hosting. Now, is there a way to solve that and have the benefits of FOSS? Both Mongo and…

How is there a moral issue when the software creators specifically and explicitly granted that right?

Surely why they granted it and they intent they had should matter for morals.

"Specifically and explicitly" is much more of a legal argument.

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#66

Post by ipaddr »

LoveGracePeace wrote: post #30
ignoramous wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point in AWS' life, enterprise sales is king. Not surprising that there's shades of Oracle / Microsoft in them. May be, Google hired Oracle #2, Thomas Kurian, to head GCP for similar reasons. Like it or not, Oracle-sized shadow looms large over BigCloud.

It surprises me when people lump Oracle (or AWS for that matter) in with the likes of Microsoft.

You are right Microsoft could be a more difficult entity to deal with.

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#67

Post by owenmarshall »

skrtskrt wrote: post #64
owenmarshall wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you know that responding to comments tends to make a discussion flow, rather than stealing all our work for your own comment, incorporating them without credit? ;-)

Just figured since there are so many forks reproducing the same work, I would merge the comments upstream to meet the needs of the community ;)

you’re depriving me of my valuable karma! I’m relicensing all comments.

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#68

Post by ghaff »

dralley wrote: post #54
adventured wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not everything negative is the new Oracle. AWS has very little in common with how Oracle has operated historically. Oracle didn't build their company in the style of AWS Redis, that cloning maneuver. Oracle's database was a pioneer. Oracle didn't get where they are by cloning open source and claiming it as their own. Despite the numerous bad things that can be said about Oracle's culture, that's not one of the ke…

They killed and re-proprietarized OpenSolaris.

Had OpenSolaris developed a sufficient community outside of Sun/Oracle, this would have been much less of an issue. Which is why community is a big deal. A large company can always decide that some project is no longer interesting and, if they're the only ones supporting it, it's going to die. They certainly have no obligation to support it.

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#69

Post by skrtskrt »

Macha wrote: post #42
skrtskrt wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would dual licensing go down, ideally in these cases? I figured if that worked, Elastic, Redis, MariaDB, Mongo, Timescale, and Cockroach Labs would have gone that route

Start out that way, and you'll find it harder to build a user base. So instead companies have done it as a bait and switch (planned or otherwise)

Would it be fair to do something where you start off with the BSL approach where older code automatically becomes fully open source (like GPL or Apache), with the exceptions that the first N versions or N years of work will start off fully open, then the BSL stuff will kick in later?

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#70

Post by johndfsgdgdfg »

skrtskrt wrote: post #11
sokoloff wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s “detrimental” to companies who perhaps shouldn’t have chosen a license that allows AWS to do exactly what they did. Those companies can’t simultaneously claim to be competent and to have made that choice without knowing what they were doing. IMO, they chased the benefits of being open source and then changed course when the costs to them exceeded the benefits (which is fine for code going forward), but trademark…

This comment is in every thread about this, but there has to be a solution that satisfies FOSS purists as well as casual users without allowing a massive, evil megacorp to just stomp on every company built around open-source solutions.

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