New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars • Hacker News Board

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#151

Post by ahthat » Wed, Feb 16, 2022, 9:51 PM UTC

jmpman wrote: post #2

Good. I look forward to this enforcement in my city. I currently live against a major road. During the night, the traffic noise isn’t disturbing, except for about one vehicle in a thousand. And that motorcycle wakes me at 3am. For weeks on end. My neighbor’s kid’s motorcycle. On his way to work at 3am, has to gun it when turning out of the neighborhood, waking everyone. These are neighbors who had shot their next doo…

Towels work pretty well apparently (sometimes better than foam acoustic panels): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eKwb58vvFI

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#152

Post by grujicd » Wed, Feb 16, 2022, 9:52 PM UTC

udfalkso wrote: post #4

One egregiously loud motorcycle rolling through manhattan can be a nuisance to literally millions of people. This is unreasonable and a ticketing system like this makes a ton of sense. Police enforcement could probably solve the issue just as effectively. Cops ignore loud honking and loud cars when its right in front of them. If they would just stop ignoring such things the frequency would surely go down as well.

It’s strange to complain about occasional motorcycle noise when emergency sirens could be heard all the time on Manhattan. Orders of magnitude more than in any other city I’ve been to. Or you New Yorkers tune that out?

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#153

Post by MichaelZuo » Wed, Feb 16, 2022, 9:52 PM UTC

brimble wrote: post #41

jjtheblunt wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they killed a neighbor's pet, but were they punished by the law? that's insane. and it also should significantly lower the threshold to having them in trouble as assholes again.

This kind of thing isn't all that uncommon. Police don't do much about crime, really (no, not even in middle-class white suburbia), as far as investigating or trying to punish anything. If you tried to bring the issue to them, you'd likely end up in a nasty he-said-she-said thing with your neighbor, possibly inviting further attacks from them, or might even end up (one way or another) being the ones receiving fines o…

By ‘Pyrrhic victory’, you mean enforcement action carries risks? That’s true for every society in human history…

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#154

Post by Zak » Wed, Feb 16, 2022, 9:52 PM UTC

cassac wrote: post #36

udfalkso wrote: post #4

One egregiously loud motorcycle rolling through manhattan can be a nuisance to literally millions of people. This is unreasonable and a ticketing system like this makes a ton of sense. Police enforcement could probably solve the issue just as effectively. Cops ignore loud honking and loud cars when its right in front of them. If they would just stop ignoring such things the frequency would surely go down as well.

That’s because the last thing anyone wants is a loud noise complaint to escalate into a shooting.

It seems to me most traffic citations ought to be issued by mail based on dashcam footage now that the technology to do so is widespread. It would also reduce traffic stops as a pretext for searches, which act as an end-run around legal protections from unreasonable search.

Traffic stops could then be relegated to imminent dangers like drunk or otherwise reckless drivers, and serious crimes.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#155

Post by jakelazaroff » Wed, Feb 16, 2022, 9:53 PM UTC

bequanna wrote: post #112

rbanffy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cops ignore loud honking and loud cars when its right in front of them. It allows for discretionary law enforcement. Cops love it. They can ignore it you if they like you, or fine you if they don't.

But, this system does kinda work and allows for police to charge antisocial assholes with a crime while letting normal, reasonable people who made a simple mistake off with a warning.

The problem is that to a cop, "normal" and "reasonable" is code for anyone with a police placard [1]. And if you give them discretion, "antisocial assholes" will end up largely meaning Black people.

Why not have the automated system issue a warning instead of a citation for the first offense?

[1] Check out this Twitter account, which documents NYPD traffic lawbreaking https://twitter.com/placardabuse. It's often really egregious stuff, like parking right in front of a fire hydrant or ticketing every illegally parked car on a street except for one with a police placard.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#156

Post by bjt2n3904 » Wed, Feb 16, 2022, 9:53 PM UTC

Good grief. The number of comments that unequivocally praise the police placing autonomous systems to fine people for annoyances.

Last year, all this stuff was racist and explicitly targeting minorites, and ACAB. Now, hail the new surveillance state! Go get those people who personally annoy me! This certainly will have no unintended side effects!

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#157

Post by brimble » Wed, Feb 16, 2022, 9:53 PM UTC

MichaelZuo wrote: post #153

brimble wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of thing isn't all that uncommon. Police don't do much about crime, really (no, not even in middle-class white suburbia), as far as investigating or trying to punish anything. If you tried to bring the issue to them, you'd likely end up in a nasty he-said-she-said thing with your neighbor, possibly inviting further attacks from them, or might even end up (one way or another) being the ones receiving fines o…

By ‘Pyrrhic victory’, you mean enforcement action carries risks? That’s true for every society in human history…

Is that how that reads to you?

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#158

Post by SilasX » Wed, Feb 16, 2022, 9:53 PM UTC

margalabargala wrote: post #68

drsnow wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how are they unconstitutional?

To be clear, their constitutionality status is a matter of opinion. In my opinion, they should be deemed unconstitutional via a violation of rights against search and seizure, and rights for a proper trial. It's impossible to face your accuser in court, it's impossible to actually check the software used to identify whether you were speeding, and asymmetrically automating enforcement of something where it's in the en…

Right to trial, I could see the issue there. Right to inspect the evidence used against you, sure.

But where on earth do you get an expectation of privacy in deafening sounds you blast in public, which people can't ignore even if they want to? And audible inside others' private areas?

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#159

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Feb 16, 2022, 9:53 PM UTC

MichaelZuo wrote: post #109

hellisothers wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why this is getting downvoted, increasing exposure to police increases number of shootings, especially for minorities. And don’t ask for citations, this is and has been all over everywhere for years.

I haven’t actually seen normalized statistics with respect to police density, ‘exposure’ or time on patrol. Do you know who publishes such numbers?

[deleted]

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#160

Post by Taywee » Wed, Feb 16, 2022, 9:53 PM UTC

bequanna wrote: post #112

rbanffy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cops ignore loud honking and loud cars when its right in front of them. It allows for discretionary law enforcement. Cops love it. They can ignore it you if they like you, or fine you if they don't.

But, this system does kinda work and allows for police to charge antisocial assholes with a crime while letting normal, reasonable people who made a simple mistake off with a warning.

While I agree with the premise of discouraging people from being antisocial assholes, that sort of system is built for bias. Discouraging antisocial behavior is one thing, but other biases might be more destructive then helpful. I think maybe the job of discouraging antisocial behavior might be more suited to something else than law enforcement, where it's more likely to actually work without becoming destructive. I couldn't give you a specific shape of what I mean, because it's a hard problem and I don't have a solution (otherwise I'd be campaigning for it).