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Intel to Acquire Tower Semiconductor for $5.4B

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Re: Intel to Acquire Tower Semiconductor for $5.4B

#61

Post by [deleted] »

smoldesu wrote: post #40
graderjs wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I thought people would feel, and why I said I thought it would be downvoted. But thanks for letting me that's what you think anyway! I don't like to admit it because of how silly and weak I think it looks, but, yep I did feel it was unfair and I was showing a little bitterness there--correctly identified, ginko!--I felt sad about it, like "why no upvotes for me?"--but also posted it with a goodnatured thi…

You're not exactly Babe Ruth calling the shot on this one. If you post something that isn't intellectually gratifying and purely petty, then yes, you're going to be downvoted on Hacker News. If you posted something along the lines of "Here's the version that isn't paywalled" or "this article has a more interesting analysis", people wouldn't have dogpiled you. Instead, you buried the lede and mentioned some pseudo-exp…

[deleted]

Re: Intel to Acquire Tower Semiconductor for $5.4B

#62

Post by Aromasin »

syshum wrote: post #21
nisegami wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda spooky how much of the cutting edge semiconductor fabs are in disputed territories...

they are purposely built their for Geo-political reasons, to ensure those area's stay "disputed"

I disagree. Israel is unique in terms of it's human capital. Tech companies have locations there for the same reasons they have locations in Oxford and Cambridge in the UK. There are 135 per 10,000 people employed as engineers there, compared to the next closest which is the US at 70 per 10k. That would already be a unique draw for Intel, if it weren't for the original reason they set up shop there; Dov Frohman. He was the first GM at Intel (also the inventor of EPROM), and wanted to relocate there to accept a Professorship. They didn't want to lose him, so they agreed to let him open an R&D lab there. This ended up being a huge success (they designed the 8087 there) and they continued to grow on that success, to the point where Intel is now the largest private employer in Israel.

I recommend Asianometry's video essay on Intel's success in Israel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lEgJQgAw3g&t=894s

He also covers the rise of such silicon manufacturing in Taiwan - which I also disagree on it being geo-politically motivated, with it being successful long before it's national identity came under threat from mainland China.

Re: Intel to Acquire Tower Semiconductor for $5.4B

#63

Post by [deleted] »

Hamuko wrote: post #53
nickpeterson wrote: post #44

Intel will succeed as long as it isn’t grossly mismanaged simply because the US government needs them to succeed. I’m also surprised they don’t pressure Apple to start building fabs in the US as well considering they own the entire stack now.

I'd foresee Apple ordering chips from Intel Foundry Services' new US fabs before Apple actually building their own fabs. Although AFAIK, IFS fabs do not yet compete in the same nodes as TSMC.

[deleted]

Re: Intel to Acquire Tower Semiconductor for $5.4B

#64

Post by selectodude »

otherotherchris wrote: post #16
throwaway4good wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it is some kind of complement to Intel's business? By the price Intel is paying compared to Tower's revenue, it really sounds like Intel is paying a lot without being able to add anything?!

It's somewhat complementary to their Israeli fab business. They may also think having a multibillion dollar fab investment next to the Golan Heights is safer than having one next to the Gaza strip. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There's a lot more water in the Golan Heights, which is really why Israel decided to take it over in the first place.

Re: Intel to Acquire Tower Semiconductor for $5.4B

#65

Post by codys »

jabl wrote: post #51
sanxiyn wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, same rectangles won't work for different foundries. It is saying we have these IP cores tested and working with the process.

This, and also the licensing question. Intel has said they will license x86 cores for use in 3rd party SoC's/chiplets, but maybe only if you use IFS.

That sounds a lot like a tying arrangement, which could be unlawful under US anti-trust laws.

Re: Intel to Acquire Tower Semiconductor for $5.4B

#66

Post by throwaway4good »

Aromasin wrote: post #62
syshum wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they are purposely built their for Geo-political reasons, to ensure those area's stay "disputed"

I disagree. Israel is unique in terms of it's human capital. Tech companies have locations there for the same reasons they have locations in Oxford and Cambridge in the UK. There are 135 per 10,000 people employed as engineers there, compared to the next closest which is the US at 70 per 10k. That would already be a unique draw for Intel, if it weren't for the original reason they set up shop there; Dov Frohman. He w…

I think the issue of "how to reunite the rogue republic of Taiwan with the motherland" predates silicon manufactoring in Taiwan by a few years :-D

Re: Intel to Acquire Tower Semiconductor for $5.4B

#67

Post by daniel-cussen »

selectodude wrote: post #64
otherotherchris wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's somewhat complementary to their Israeli fab business. They may also think having a multibillion dollar fab investment next to the Golan Heights is safer than having one next to the Gaza strip. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There's a lot more water in the Golan Heights, which is really why Israel decided to take it over in the first place.

Water is crucially important to fabs, true. But get real, water is important for everything in Israel, and why it had strategic value to warrant annexing it after the whole--the whole war that happened, the casus bellum of which cannot be done justice in short comments like this.

Re: Intel to Acquire Tower Semiconductor for $5.4B

#68

Post by jabl »

ginko wrote: post #54
jabl wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSMC is producing some x86 cpu's for Intel. I think what they're saying here is that they will license x86 cores for integrating into 3rd party SoC's/chiplets, but only if you use IFS.

They're also producing all x86 CPUs for AMD.

Yes [1]? The argument is about whether Intel refuses to license their processor designs to 3rd parties to be fabbed in any random fab.

[1] Evidently the x86 cross licensing deals between AMD and Intel doesn't preclude AMD from using 3rd party fabs.

Re: Intel to Acquire Tower Semiconductor for $5.4B

#69

Post by sharikous »

otherotherchris wrote: post #16
throwaway4good wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it is some kind of complement to Intel's business? By the price Intel is paying compared to Tower's revenue, it really sounds like Intel is paying a lot without being able to add anything?!

It's somewhat complementary to their Israeli fab business. They may also think having a multibillion dollar fab investment next to the Golan Heights is safer than having one next to the Gaza strip. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Israel is so small that according to your definition of "next" everything has to be "next" to the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights and the West Bank, and also to Lebanon, Syria Egypt and Jordan for good measure.

Seriously, Tower is far away from the Golan Heights in the Israeli sense. It is however in the Galilee (big Arab population) and "near" the West Bank.

I think the closeness to the Technion university and to Intel's partners factories (KLA Temcor...) is a much more significant factoid

Re: Intel to Acquire Tower Semiconductor for $5.4B

#70

Post by throwaway4good »

syshum wrote: post #21
nisegami wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda spooky how much of the cutting edge semiconductor fabs are in disputed territories...

they are purposely built their for Geo-political reasons, to ensure those area's stay "disputed"

The "geopolitics" is played up as the US now needs an excuse for aggressive industrial policies aiming to move jobs from "allieds" such as South Korea and Taiwan and back into the US.

Pat Gelsinger panders to this as he eyes a windfall for his business, so much that it is getting harsh reactions from Taiwan:

Intel CEO: Taiwan Isn’t a Stable Place. TSMC Founder Has Other Concerns

https://techtaiwan.com/20211207/gelsinger-intel-taiwan/

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