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Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#901

Post by account42 »

ashwagary wrote: post #521
rpnx wrote: post #473

My thoughts on this are that every time I see a news piece about Firefox it's about "social justice", some code of conduct controversy, or something else utterly unimportant to web browser selection. Being "Open Source" does nothing for me when Firefox engages in the same crap as other closed source browsers, like Pocket. Mozilla also allowed social issues to take precedence over retaining good engineers. Whether you…

>even assholes have a basic right to exist >I don't give a shit how nice the developers who made my web browser are. I dont either, but do their coworkers care? If so, they should be disciplined or fired depending on behavior.

If the "asshole" is being an asshole on the job yes. If the problem is that the coworkers don't like the "asshole"'s beliefs or what he is doing in his free time then they should be told to deal with it.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#902

Post by account42 »

chomp wrote: post #12

Firefox is losing market share due to shortsighted/poor decisions from leadership, and a harsh anti-competitive landscape from Microsoft/Google/Apple. Firefox is difficult to save because it's been on constant life support from Google to misdirect antitrust investigators. Saving Firefox would involve not only raising its market share (which would probably have to involve a deal from Google/Microsoft/Apple or legislat…

> find a way to wean Mozilla Corp off of the Google payments, which would mean investments in tangentially related services (like VPN, etc.)

I disagree - the way forward should be for Mozilla to stop acting like a corporation and start acting like a non-profit. They will never be able to compete with tech giants when it comes to selling things and services in order to throw the profits at the browser - and trying will only incentivize them to make the browser worse to help sell things. Instead they should emprace that having an open browser that is not controlled by a for-profit corporation is a common good and seek people, organizations and governments that agree and are willing to fund it for that reason alone.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#903

Post by account42 »

uniqueuid wrote: post #7

Maybe it has to do with its competitors being a 1.7 trillion dollar company and a 2.5 trillion dollar company! Winning against those requires not only better technology AND marketing AND consumer favor, but also leverage in the legal processes that enable/disable network effects. So anti-trust is unfortunately one of Mozilla's biggest hopes.

With Google giving them new golden handcuffs every year Mozilla is unlikely to do anything to upset the status quo, including lobbying for anti-trust enforcement.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#904

Post by account42 »

eternityforest wrote: post #541
WorldMaker wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need a better way to communicate this: Chrome doesn't "lead the spec", it "rushes out ahead of the spec". The developers using non-standard features need to be held better accountable for using non-standard features, and Google needs to be held better accountable for releasing non-standard features ahead of standardization processes. W3C is seen as no longer relevant to HTML specs having delegated "HTML5" to WHATW…

Apple and Mozilla can't be compromised with. They want certain powerful features to just not exist. They don't trust users to choose for themselves. They are trying to ensure privacy at all costs by making tools that could be used to spy unavailable, no matter what the purpose. If devs want to make something, Chrome wants to make it happen, and I want to use it, then I don't want Mozilla trying to block up the whole…

> What's next, are you going to disable downloading executable files, probably the most dangerous browser feature of all?

Funny, that's exactly what Google does (and all other browser follow Google) if that executable is from someone small enough that can't affort to threaten Google with a lawsuit because that's the only thing that will get them to care about false positives in their "Safe Browsing" gatekeeping list.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#905

Post by account42 »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #35

I wouldn't try to save Firefox, I'd try to save the benefits of an open web (I'm assuming some variant on that is their actual mission statement but not checked). Firefox itself is just one in a series of reinventions. I am at peace with using a Firefox branded chromium fork in some future date as I think a balanced corporate sharing economy similar to Linux is probably the best we can hope for. On that theme, some k…

> Firefox itself is just one in a series of reinventions. I am at peace with using a Firefox branded chromium fork in some future date as I think a balanced corporate sharing economy similar to Linux is probably the best we can hope for.

Except Chromium is not that. WebKit might have been but Google and/or Apple decided they'd rather want their own fiefdoms than play along. Both companies have made it very clear that they want to be in control.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#906

Post by andriesm »

Jayakumark wrote: post #164
selfhoster11 wrote: post #2

They should focus on saving Firefox. - Cut out all (or at the very least, most) initiatives that don't serve the goal of promoting Firefox's market share or sustainability going forward - Donate the major money drains that aren't Firefox to the Apache Foundation or another worthy custodian - Fire all inessential staff that don't want to work on Firefox. - Get a CEO/upper management that are in it for the passion, not…

Current CEO is a cancer to Mozilla, her main goal seems like to make more money personally before Mozilla goes bankrupt. As long is as she is there - there is no hope https://itdm.com/mozilla-firefox-usage-down-85-but-why-are-e...

Well they fired the previous competent CEO for political reasons. If politics and what you do in your private time is more important than competence, then this is what you get. Well deserved. FireFox getting it what it deserves. If you hire CEOs based on being women or having nice private beliefs, instead of competence you can eat failure all day long as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#907

Post by account42 »

WorldMaker wrote: post #229
BeefWellington wrote: post #143

I actually have wondered about this. Given the changes in the way tracking protection has been done, have there been any actual studies/analyses that show Firefox is losing marketshare? If it's all based on ad companies and server-side detection, I'm unclear that you could actually correctly make the claim. If anyone has links I'd be interested in reading; I'm sure there are fingerprinting techniques, but ones that r…

I also suspect a lot of the "Firefox is losing marketshare" is driven in part by ad companies, especially the huge one named Google. Given how many websites think Firefox in Enhanced Privacy Protection mode is "an ad blocker", of course ad trackers think Firefox is losing marketshare because it isn't feeding their trackers. Between that and how Mobile Firefox still has to use platform browsers (and a lot of user agen…

> Between that and how Mobile Firefox still has to use platform browsers

That's only on Apple platforms - FF on Android uses Gecko (but then they go and arbitrarily limit the extensions you are allowed to install anyway).

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#908

Post by account42 »

carapace wrote: post #720
paulryanrogers wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so what is the differentiator that makes it compelling? Is a focus on privacy and independence not enough?

Well, no, evidently not. That's why we're having this conversation, eh?

Well there is also that Mozilla likes to proclaim how much they care about privacy but then keeps adding telemetry and a million of other ways that the browser leaks your data without any easy way to opt out (when it should ALL be opt in) not to mention the search deal with the anti-privacy devil. So I disagree that we have seen whether a focus on privacy is enough only whether privacy maketing without actually backing it up is enough.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#909

Post by account42 »

waingake wrote: post #119

What if we forked it with a Kickstarter campaign to fund core engineering salaries, followed by a low monthly subscription. Personally I'd happily pay if I knew the money was going where it should.

I wouldn't pay a subscription for Firefox but I would donate regularly if it was freely available and managed as a non-profit without any deals that make them beholden to megacorporations.
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