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Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#891
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I use this as well, but it utterly fails the elderly grandmother test. Its not well known. Its not easily accessibly for non-technical users. & its not clear which profile you are currently using when you are using it.

How many elderly grandmothers and other non-technical users give two shits about having multiple profiles in their browser?

Honestly the elderly grandmother test is meant to model discovery for all users. Not actually use meant for grandmothers or even non-technical user.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#892

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, she is on the take from Google to keep Firefox as a shield against monopoly claims, while reducing the actual competitive threat.

Pretty sure Apple/Safari and Microsoft/Edge have the monopoly shield taken care of at this point. Firefox on its current trajectory will bleed to death slow enough for nobody to notice. Mozilla stopped innovating in the one product of theirs anybody cares about. I sort of wish Mozilla would die faster so the current executives bleeding it dry would move on, and hopefully someone who actually cares about more than the…

I wish that too

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#893

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not specifically about Firefox but: if nonprofits can’t pay for talent then you get what you pay for, crappy talent for important positions. That said many people have your mindset so that puts all nonprofits at a disadvantage against any for-profit initiative as far as getting talent goes. You shouldn’t need to martyr yourself to do something good.

If the non-profit can pay market rates for a CEO then it can pay market rates for developers.

Do they not pay market rates for developers?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#894

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One objective fiasco is the inability of FF on Android to keep multiple tabs in memory. Older versions were capable of it without issue, ever since the tab unloading feature, Firefox has been reloading tabs at the slightest pretense. Switch apps? Tabs get reloaded when you're back. Lock & unlock phone with Firefox in focus? Tabs get reloaded Switch tabs in Firefox? Tabs get reloaded... I wish I was just ranting, but…

Doesn't happen for me. OnePlus 8 with Oxygen OS 11. The one thing I really miss in FF mobile is the opposite.. Pull to refresh or another gesture that accomplishes that. The current two tap option is too slow.

I no longer have a need for that, my Firefox ALWAYS refreshes each and every tab whenever I look away from it for 5 seconds, so maybe it's a feature?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#895
post #868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One objective fiasco is the inability of FF on Android to keep multiple tabs in memory. Older versions were capable of it without issue, ever since the tab unloading feature, Firefox has been reloading tabs at the slightest pretense. Switch apps? Tabs get reloaded when you're back. Lock & unlock phone with Firefox in focus? Tabs get reloaded Switch tabs in Firefox? Tabs get reloaded... I wish I was just ranting, but…

That is interesting to me because that isn't my experience. I just tried the lock screen for example and I couldn't get any of tabs to reload, foreground or not. I'm on Android 10 running on a Moto G7. Maybe it's affected by vendor settings?

Quite a few devices experience this though. For the record, I use an S9, and used to have 50+ tabs with no issues on older versions of Firefox - now I cannot have one tab remain open without a reload if I lock my phone with Firefox focused and turn unlock it a minute later. And that's with Firefox explicitly exempt from each and every kind of battery/memory etc. "optimization" by Android...

Here's the issue itself on GitHub: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/12731

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#896

They should focus on saving Firefox. - Cut out all (or at the very least, most) initiatives that don't serve the goal of promoting Firefox's market share or sustainability going forward - Donate the major money drains that aren't Firefox to the Apache Foundation or another worthy custodian - Fire all inessential staff that don't want to work on Firefox. - Get a CEO/upper management that are in it for the passion, not…

Current CEO is a cancer to Mozilla, her main goal seems like to make more money personally before Mozilla goes bankrupt. As long is as she is there - there is no hope https://itdm.com/mozilla-firefox-usage-down-85-but-why-are-e...

I used to strongly support the mission of Mozilla. When I first read about the practices of upper management I felt like a fool for ever having donated in the past.

That is not going to happen again and I don't even like Firefox so much anymore because of it.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#897
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who knew someone who worked there she is absolutely nuts and her thinking is beyond radical. She will destroy Mozilla if she doesn't step down. Assuming it's not too late already.

No, she is on the take from Google to keep Firefox as a shield against monopoly claims, while reducing the actual competitive threat.

> to keep Firefox as a shield against monopoly claims

Not with that marketshare! Assuming you're right, it seems she's failing at that too; there is no appearance of worthwhile competition from Firefox, which fighting for a distant #3 spot

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#898
The focus shouldn't be Firefox per se, it should be Gecko.

In this market, we've got an army of secondary secondary browser players-- the Vivaldis, the Braves, Yandex's browser team, the smouldering wreckage of Opera, and yes even Microsoft's Edge and (to a lesser extent) Apple's Safari teams.

I'm sure every single one of those developers knows they're living with a belligerent landlord: they're going to spend too much of their careers having to unwind anti-competitive or just "we wouldn't want to include this in OUR browser" features in Blink.

Make sure you're a serious option for them. Make Gecko as embeddable as Webkit.

In this plan, the endgame actually has a fairly low Firefox market share, because it gradually evolves to be the "packed-in reference implementation" of the Gecko engine. Instead, we focused on building a healthier web ecosystem. More people end up using Gecko!Edge or Gecko!Vivaldi or whatever, and this breaks up market share enough that Google can't barge their way through the standards process by unilaterally cramming features into Blink. The individual vendors can more completely focus on their custom improvements while expecting that the core browser engine isn't going to be polluted to serve a specific (and not their own) commercial interest, and have a vested commercial interest in supporting Mozilla to do the heavy lifting for them.

In the short term, I think maybe they could start appealing to this market as a "too important to fail" concept. Think of AMD 10 years ago: the products are mediocre right now, but everyone knew if they went bankrupt, the industry would stagnate majorly for a long time. That might be a justification for soliciting foundation memberships or hackathons to encourage development work on their engine.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#899
post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla is not IBM. They may compete against the likes of Google, Microsoft, and Apple, yet they are not those companies either. The scope of their business interests are minuscule in comparison. Heck, their share of the markets that they do compete with those companies in pales in comparison. So yes, there is an element of arrogance in her claim.

Mozilla is not IBM; Rometti got 20 mil while the Mozilla CEO got 2 mil. CEO to CEO, different markets, different rates, the same principle applies.

IBM revenue was $54.1 billion in 2021. Mozilla around ~0.5 billion - a ratio of ~100. Thus, Mozilla CEO should get only 0.2 million not 2 million.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla is not IBM; Rometti got 20 mil while the Mozilla CEO got 2 mil. CEO to CEO, different markets, different rates, the same principle applies.

IBM revenue was $54.1 billion in 2021. Mozilla around ~0.5 billion - a ratio of ~100. Thus, Mozilla CEO should get only 0.2 million not 2 million.

Well, I'd say not everything is linear. All I'm saying is, this is nowhere near as arrogant as the OP made it sound.

The difference between 0.2 million and 2 million for a board of directors is literally a rounding error.

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