Live data from Hacker News

Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

news.ycombinator.com

231–240 of 254 posts

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#231
post #87

It's how the Reddit spam filter works. Once your account is flagged as spam by the system, it would be global shadowbanned automacially. At this stage, your account is essentially finished, it's basically impossible to talk to someone and get your account unblocked. Eventually the account would be deleted, all the post you've ever made would also be gone in the worst-case scenario, just like my previous account. My R…

Shadow banning is such a disgusting practice. It's basically sweeping the "problem" under the rug, whilst leaving the "problem" completely in the dark with regards to what it was they did wrong. It's lazy, it's abusive, and it should be illegal. Edit: to clarify, I'm totally fine with this tool being employed to combat spam(bots). Just not against normal posters/contributors.

> It's lazy, it's abusive, and it should be illegal.

I really dislike "it should be illegal" for things like this. It's itself a lazy solution against a hard problem. It seems to often be used as shorthand for "I don't like this and I want it to stop". But making things illegal isn't a magic "make it stop" button. (Hello, War On Drugs, War On Terror, War On Poverty, etc).

If you want to involve the Government in solving your problem, you now must also account for:

* What is the exact text of a law against this that could actually make it through any particular Congressional body?

* How will possible violations of this law be reported and investigated?

* How will that law be misused by malicious prosecutors and investigators to hassle and punish anybody they don't like?

* How will all of the actors involved actually change their behavior in ways that you didn't expect in order to avoid being targeted for either well-intentioned or malicious prosecution for possible violation of these new laws?

Example: Say I run a pseudonymous social media site resembling Reddit, and shadowbanning is the only thing keeping it from being a hopeless pit of spam right now. If I can't shadowban anymore, maybe my only solution is to require hard proof of identity for all users at least as strict as the KYC your banks use. Now everything you ever post is hard-linked to your identity. Even if not publicly shown normally, it's vulnerable to hacks, malicious employees, or Government requests. That would obviously benefit the Government, so there's a little incentive for them to implement and enforce any such law in such a way that sites are effectively forced to do this. Whoops, we just made the problem worse.

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#232
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should not be illegal to ban someone from a website under any circumstances.

I'm not talking about regular bans, I'm talking about shadow banning. In case you're not familiar with the concept: it entails "muting" an account without ever notifying said account of that fact. They can still post, comment, vote, and everything else, but no one will see this content.

Sorry, I should have worded that a little more clearly, but my statement applies to shadow banning as well. In my view, it is totally unreasonable to make arbitrary software behavior like shadow banning illegal.

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#233
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The Instagram appeals process is to email them a selfie, holding a piece of paper with the current date and something else written on it. Do they also ask you to put a shoe on your head?

No … Instagram is a .com domain so you don’t need to head-shoe (at least, not in the US …)

wait... does any domain registrar ask that user's prove themselves with the shoe on head method?

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#234
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been using Reddit since the beginning, and I still use and like it, but your ban for saying “using php is stupid” comment resonates. One of my biggest Reddit pet peeves is downvoting or punitive mod action in response to subjective opinions. It’s not a new problem, and it’s one that can happen in any forum with downvoting, but it drives me nuts. The downvote is not a disagree button!

The downvote button is Reddit's second biggest problem. It was meant to signal that a piece of content was either off-topic or broke a rule, as a way to alleviate the pressure of moderation. That's a fine theory, but it's simply not possible in an anonymous and unaccountable environment. It increases the trolling and makes it easy for bad actors to both control competitor content and promote their own.

> The downvote button is Reddit's second biggest problem. It was meant to signal that a piece of content was either off-topic or broke a rule, as a way to alleviate the pressure of moderation.

That seems inaccurate. The up/down arrows feed the "hotness" algorithm, and it was never a means of moderation, but does have a side effect similar. You're probably confusing "curation" with "moderation". I can tell you with high confidence, being a mod of several big sub-reddit's, that I give zero-fucks about the up or down votes given to any item in the moderation queue.

Further more, the actual numbers for up/down votes is fuzzed by reddit, intentionally misreported to sabotage those who try to game the system. They mess with the feedback loop, making it harder to vote brigade.

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#235
post #228
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

isn't shadow-banning only something reddit admins can do, not subreddit moderators?

Subreddit mods can do it also, with a little help from the automoderator bot I believe.

ah, now I found the right thing, they set automoderator to hide every post automatically, thus getting the same result.

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#236

It's how the Reddit spam filter works. Once your account is flagged as spam by the system, it would be global shadowbanned automacially. At this stage, your account is essentially finished, it's basically impossible to talk to someone and get your account unblocked. Eventually the account would be deleted, all the post you've ever made would also be gone in the worst-case scenario, just like my previous account. My R…

> impossible to talk to someone and get your account unblocked

Hence why Reddit will only and ever remain a tool for consumer to consumer communication, and why a business would be stupid to use it as a primary marketing channel.

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#237
Interesting topic. Not defending the social media platforms or forum websites, but they do need to defend against spoofing of accounts, bots, etc. This obviously isn't the way to do it, but it is the fastest way for them to do so. One analogy for us as the users: It's the same as callerID and numbers being flagged as spam. You would never route your outbound phone calls through a phone gateway which everyone used. VPNs have become the defacto way for people to manage privacy on the internet and it has already been shown that VPNs are not as bulletproof as people once thought. There are other solutions out there. DM me for more.

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delete your email address from your profile. That got my ten year account banned.

Sounds like something someone who's going to sell their account would do.

I deleted it after verification because I wanted to remain anon. Thirteen years ago.

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#239
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The downvote button is Reddit's second biggest problem. It was meant to signal that a piece of content was either off-topic or broke a rule, as a way to alleviate the pressure of moderation. That's a fine theory, but it's simply not possible in an anonymous and unaccountable environment. It increases the trolling and makes it easy for bad actors to both control competitor content and promote their own.

> The downvote button is Reddit's second biggest problem. It was meant to signal that a piece of content was either off-topic or broke a rule, as a way to alleviate the pressure of moderation. That seems inaccurate. The up/down arrows feed the "hotness" algorithm, and it was never a means of moderation, but does have a side effect similar. You're probably confusing "curation" with "moderation". I can tell you with hi…

> The up/down arrows feed the "hotness" algorithm, and it was never a means of moderation, but does have a side effect similar. You're probably confusing "curation" with "moderation".

That's not true. Downvoting[1] is absolutely intended to be a way to alleviate moderation duties, so that off-topic or inappropriate posts are made less visible and the moderators don't need to micro-manage every single comment.

> Further more, the actual numbers for up/down votes is fuzzed by reddit, intentionally misreported to sabotage those who try to game the system. They mess with the feedback loop, making it harder to vote brigade.

The vote fuzzing doesn't actually stop brigading at all. If it did, there wouldn't be any, yet everyone acknowledges that the vote gaming is ubiquitous and constant. Bad actors don't care about the numbers Reddit is reporting to them -- they vote until the desired effect is achieved, not until some standardized number of votes is hit.

[1] https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddi...

"Vote. If you think something contributes to conversation, upvote it. If you think it does not contribute to the subreddit it is posted in or is off-topic in a particular community, downvote it."

"Think before you downvote and take a moment to ensure you're downvoting someone because they are not contributing to the community dialogue or discussion. If you simply take a moment to stop, think and examine your reasons for downvoting, rather than doing so out of an emotional reaction, you will ensure that your downvotes are given for good reasons."

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very true and it is already having an effect. The amount of posts in the development sub reddit has declined so much it is borderline dead. For example the front page of r/javascript is mostly days old posts which means I can visit it once a week and not really miss anything and it has 1,873,376 subscribers! It seems people have recognized that the post quality was garbage and moved on to greener pastures. It…

I'm banned from askscience because the mod doesn't believe that I can both do my day job and make comments on my old day job. Apparently nobody on earth has two related specializations, and since he's a college kid in one of the two topics, he knows that the comment I made is wrong. Nevermind that it's about a device that I created, or that I gave him the manual and showed it to be true, or that my comments were frie…

How incredibly frustrating! I empathize. You're not the only one who has experienced this sort of Kafkaesque behavior from mods on Reddit, where no matter what you explain, no matter what supporting evidence you provide, no matter what reality is, you will be willfully misread in order to justify a case against you.
Post reply on HN