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Belgium approves four-day week

euronews.com

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Re: Belgium approves four-day week

#71

Post by IMTDb »

jonathonf wrote: post #22
bla3 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the type of work, surely. If it's menial tasks and labor is plenty, you can afford your workforce continuously burning out, since it's fast to train and easy to replace. It's exploitative, but as long as it makes the market happy... For highly-educated jobs where people need 6 months of onboarding and institutional knowledge matters, it's probably more efficient to reduce churn.

> it's probably more efficient to reduce churn That would be lovely. Unfortunately, many places would rather you move job than give you a raise. It's cheaper in their accounts, and that's what (ah) counts.

You are living under the assumption that giving a raise would prevent churn. In many cases it does not work like that, just reading the comments in this thread shows that many people would be OK earning less if that meant working part-time.

This is consistent with many studies showing that above a certain level of revenues, money matters less and less, while free time matters more and more.

Since training is expensive, what companies are looking for are people that are willing to work more so that those costs are divided amongst more working hours. And they notice that paying more does not translate in people working more, for the reasons outlined above. A equilibrium is reached when people work the amount that they need to reach a certain comfort level then switch to looking for more free time.

Re: Belgium approves four-day week

#72

Post by sylware »

for instance: if the medical staff is at 3 'days a week', this should make them work better because with less fatigue. It means there will be a need of more medical staff, probably 2x. Then once a pandemic hits like corona, if the infrastructure was properly sized, that should help a lot to handle the blow.

Ofc, this is very foreign to all current running economy models.

Re: Belgium approves four-day week

#73

Post by sAbakumoff »

rdsubhas wrote: post #55
sAbakumoff wrote: post #14

I recall times when I worked at the office. Friday was a dead day. No one was interested in doing anything but waiting until 5pm. People were wandering around the office like zombies, having endless coffee-breaks and meaningless chats. I guess that it's quite common situation for office workers, unless they are under strict surveillance and control(f.e. Amazon, EPAM).

Yes indeed, I can relate to. But just out of curiosity, if we get used to a 4 day week, will Thursday become the new Friday? (genuine question plz, I have no clue either way)

Who knows, people are strange creatures. I guess we will find out as more countries embrace 4-days week. In the Netherlands, I hope that the liberal "D66" party will crush the "right-wing" incumbent in the next election, win the majority in the parliament and do something similar to that they did in Belgium.

Re: Belgium approves four-day week

#74

Post by McWobbleston »

harles wrote: post #6

38 hours (the estimated work week) is exactly half of the 996 week (76 hours) of some companies in China. I don’t think that’s healthy, but if I had to bet, I’d pick the 76 hour workers outcompeting their 38 hour counterparts.

This is assuming the 38 hour worker isn't doing other productive things off the clock. I think it gets a lot less clear if any significant number of the 4 day workers are producing useful works in their new free time or helping with productive actions that aren't well suited towards a profit motive

Re: Belgium approves four-day week

#75

Post by McWobbleston »

rdsubhas wrote: post #55
sAbakumoff wrote: post #14

I recall times when I worked at the office. Friday was a dead day. No one was interested in doing anything but waiting until 5pm. People were wandering around the office like zombies, having endless coffee-breaks and meaningless chats. I guess that it's quite common situation for office workers, unless they are under strict surveillance and control(f.e. Amazon, EPAM).

Yes indeed, I can relate to. But just out of curiosity, if we get used to a 4 day week, will Thursday become the new Friday? (genuine question plz, I have no clue either way)

I think it will in some cases and others it won't. I feel like I would have a hard time making good progress in software if Thursday was a wasted day like Friday often is, but I imagine some people will be able to knock out good progress in 3 days and get back into it the next week

Re: Belgium approves four-day week

#76

Post by thesuitonym »

krickkrack wrote: post #38
thesuitonym wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the person you're replying to is talking to an employer who wishes they could hire someone to work 80% time for 80% pay, but somehow isn't able to do that (Hint: It's because they don't really want to)

Employees can and do work part-time. What a silly 'diss' lol.

You sure can, and you can enjoy not having health insurance, vacation time, retirement contributions, or anything else that makes working less unbearable.

Re: Belgium approves four-day week

#77

Post by PeterStuer »

For context, the workweek was 38 a week in Belgium already. The only difference is you can officially spread it over 4 days instead of 5.

In IT it makes a real difference as it wiil change from a de facto 50h to 40h. ( You work 50 h but are only allowed to put 38h on the official time-sheet)

Re: Belgium approves four-day week

#78

Post by marlowe221 »

philmcp wrote: post #2

"In practice this means maintaining a 38-hour working week, with an additional day off compensating for longer work days." Unfortunately it's a compressed 4 day week, instead of a "proper" 4 day work week (i.e. 4 x 8 hour days, e.g. https://4dayweek.io ) A step in the right direction however

Yeah... compressed 4 day weeks do nothing for you if you're a parent. My kids get out of school/daycare at 3:30 pm. That's hard enough to deal with working 8x5 days, especially post-COVID when after school care of any kind is basically unobtainium a this point.

I literally cannot work 9 or 10 hour days.

Re: Belgium approves four-day week

#79

Post by parasense »

jd115 wrote: post #7
krickkrack wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an employer there are plenty of jobs that I would be perfectly fine allowing the employee to work 20% less, as long as they cost me 20% less.

That's literally missing the entire point of it. You already have this now - always had it. There's nothing new or interesting about what you're "proposing". What IS new and interesting is getting employees who work 20% less, AND THEREFORE are 20% more productive (and presumably 20% happier), at the same cost.

> You already have this now - always had it. There's nothing new or interesting about what you're "proposing".

Where are these rainbow unicorns who produce 20% more value in 80% of the time?

Re: Belgium approves four-day week

#80

Post by sam_lowry_ »

marlowe221 wrote: post #78
philmcp wrote: post #2

"In practice this means maintaining a 38-hour working week, with an additional day off compensating for longer work days." Unfortunately it's a compressed 4 day week, instead of a "proper" 4 day work week (i.e. 4 x 8 hour days, e.g. https://4dayweek.io ) A step in the right direction however

Yeah... compressed 4 day weeks do nothing for you if you're a parent. My kids get out of school/daycare at 3:30 pm. That's hard enough to deal with working 8x5 days, especially post-COVID when after school care of any kind is basically unobtainium a this point. I literally cannot work 9 or 10 hour days.

You probably have a partner and can arrange for shifts. Part of the deal is about flexible working hours. But yes, it is nowhere as bold as the French 35-hour work week.
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