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Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

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Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this stage, your account is essentially finished, it's basically impossible to talk to someone and get your account unblocked. Seems like they're following Google's strategy. Presumably, ad profit from each individual user is low enough that it's cheaper to accept false positives in their anti-abuse mechanism than it is to provide a functioning appeal process. Maybe if the user manages to go viral on Twitter or…

It's the strategy of all the major social players. Several months ago I followed a new cardistry (look it up) personality on Instagram. I scrolled through and "liked" one or two dozen of their performance clips, out of the hundreds that they've posted. My Instagram account was blocked, for "manipulation" or some verbiage like that. Basically, the algorithm thought that I was a bot hired to inflate that person's numbe…

>The Instagram appeals process is to email them a selfie, holding a piece of paper with the current date and something else written on it.

Do they also ask you to put a shoe on your head?

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he means the practice of shadow banning. Not that I agree there either, but I agree that it is abusive.

What if they just started shadow banning African Americans? Would that be illegal? This is a serious qeustion. If we have no idea on who they are shadow banning how can we tell if they are not being discriminatory?

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this stage, your account is essentially finished, it's basically impossible to talk to someone and get your account unblocked. Seems like they're following Google's strategy. Presumably, ad profit from each individual user is low enough that it's cheaper to accept false positives in their anti-abuse mechanism than it is to provide a functioning appeal process. Maybe if the user manages to go viral on Twitter or…

I recently learned about the kik strategy for handling child porn via Darknet Diaries[1]. If you can't actually tell anyone at kik about child porn, kik can't know about it and if nobody at kik knows about it then they're apparently not required to do anything about it. [1] https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/93/

This is astonishingly illegal.

What needs to happen is for someone who has a report to make to contact the state attorney general and say "because this company is profiting from child pornography with no reporting mechanism, they have lost their safe harbor protection, and are complicit."

Companies like this need to be taught at the metaphorical end of a rifle.

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#184

Likely because bots and troll farms are totally out of control, and they don't have a more accurate way of fighting it. IMHO, this is also the reason behind some of the heavy-handed moderation on some subreddits. AFAICT, as bad as it is already, this is only going to get worse as (1) NLP AI gets better and (2) there remains no positive defense against sybil attacks. Just curious... I'm assuming people have already th…

> AFAICT, as bad as it is already, this is only going to get worse as (1) NLP AI gets better and (2) there remains no positive defense against sybil attacks.

I strongly agree. The future of public discourse online looks dim. At that point, on one hand, platforms will certainly require more Personal Identifiable Information, which harms the privacy of regular users. Meanwhile, trolls and bots from various malicious actors will be able to dominate and control many conversations on an unprecedented scale. One would have neither privacy nor security, the web envisioned by digital utopianists as a free, open platform will be completely dead.

100 years ago, the pioneers of aviation believed the invention of airplanes would be a force to end all wars, because it breaks the power asymmetry in battlefields. But we get massive aerial bombardments on civilians instead.

> It was an idea shared by many after the inception of flight. War would become practically impossible, the brothers thought, because the scouting done by aircraft would equalize opposing nations with information on each other's movements, preventing surprise attacks.

> "We thought governments would recognize the impossibility of winning by surprise attacks," Orville said in 1917, "and that no country would enter into war with another of equal size when it knew that it would have to win by simply wearing out its enemy."

> Two years before, he had declared: "The aeroplane will prevent war by making it too expensive, too slow, too difficult, too long drawn out."

> "Yes, we thought it might have military use - but in reverse," said the 76-year-old inventor, whose brother had died at age 45 in 1912. "Because the men who start wars aren't the ones who do the fighting, we hoped that the possibility of dropping bombs on capital cities would deter them."

100 years later, the pioneers of the web believed the invention of the Web would be the force to a free society because it breaks the power asymmetry on information between individuals and the state. But we are now getting massive manipulations from all types of malicious actors.

> "Information," Gage [John Gage from Sun Microsystems] answers, matter-of-factly. "What stopped the Vietnam War was that we told the truth about what was happening. Today, the truth-telling mechanisms that we can put in people's hands are a million times more powerful," he says, wending through the ghetto fringe of East Palo Alto. "And when every person on the planet has access to that power - which is what I'm trying to do - then watch what happens."

Yes, many people now has access to that power, but some, like state actors (or just plain old advertisers), now have order-of-magnitude more power.

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#185

I've gotten a 7 day ban just for being a member of a group. Never posted, never up or down voted. Just a member. Banned for 7 days. I'm Reddit user 2,200 or so, never had even a warning about anything. I'm lucky they didn't permanently ban my account

That’s not a thing for the entire site, so you must be confusing a ban from a subreddit with a sitewide ban, and subreddit mods are (for some reason) allowed to do whatever toxic, evil thing they want, including banning people for subscribing to another subreddit.

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#186

I periodically delete reddit accounts and start new ones, mainly to preserve anonymity and prevent harassment. 1 in 3 accounts I start are shadowbanned from the start for no apparent reason at all. I’ve never used a VPN. Same IPs and devices each time with no attempts at obfuscation or any activity that would reasonably seem suspicious.

I also rotate periodically, partially to evade bans from moderators, and I’ve only run into trouble with IP bans on account creation.

If you create the account from a clean IP you’re usually good, even if you use the banned IP later on.

Reddit is ripe to be picked off by a more agile competitor, if someone could innovate in moderation. Monetization would also be a lot easier for a smaller startup, as Reddit more or less paved the way for a few different paths there that users now find acceptable.

They abandoned the idea of making reddit gold a cryptocurrency, but it’s perfectly memey and would blow up a valuation if someone else could get it right.

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he means the practice of shadow banning. Not that I agree there either, but I agree that it is abusive.

What if they just started shadow banning African Americans? Would that be illegal? This is a serious qeustion. If we have no idea on who they are shadow banning how can we tell if they are not being discriminatory?

The practice of excluding by race is not actually illegal.

Think about fraternities. Think about ethnic centers.

People have an expectation that because it's immoral in the obvious case, it's illegal.

It's actually not. Nothing stops anyone from making a group for, say, Chinese American newspaper reporters, or Lebanese car mechanics.

What's actually illegal is turning people down for jobs or housing over race.

The law would only be interested if the website was the only way to get to protected topics like a job board

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently learned about the kik strategy for handling child porn via Darknet Diaries[1]. If you can't actually tell anyone at kik about child porn, kik can't know about it and if nobody at kik knows about it then they're apparently not required to do anything about it. [1] https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/93/

This is astonishingly illegal. What needs to happen is for someone who has a report to make to contact the state attorney general and say "because this company is profiting from child pornography with no reporting mechanism, they have lost their safe harbor protection, and are complicit." Companies like this need to be taught at the metaphorical end of a rifle.

Yeah, I think that's basically what the FBI agent they interviewed said. There's nothing for him to do and it would be entirely up to prosecutors to do anything. Part of the wrench is that kik can show that they do some sort of things that possibly qualify as "moderation" under the law. Things like auto-banning bots. So in court has apparently successfully kik has made the claim that they do moderate based on things like this so that checks the safe harbor requirement apparently.

But... all the people they claim to have on their "Safety Board" haven't worked for kik for years and all efforts to contact anyone on twitter or anywhere fail. Even DMCA takedowns of revenge porn were being ignored now. It seems to be a dead platform that nevertheless gets app updates uploaded so something is still going on somewhere by someone.

Basically the only option they were discussing was getting the app removed from Google and Apple stores and they compared the situation to Parler where the app was pulled for failing to moderate. And yet kik seems to get a pass somehow. It's a very disturbing and frustrating episode.

Re: Tell HN: Reddit accounts cancellation/suspension caused by VPN usage

#190
post #163

It's how the Reddit spam filter works. Once your account is flagged as spam by the system, it would be global shadowbanned automacially. At this stage, your account is essentially finished, it's basically impossible to talk to someone and get your account unblocked. Eventually the account would be deleted, all the post you've ever made would also be gone in the worst-case scenario, just like my previous account. My R…

Why were you using Tor?

Why aren't you using Tor?
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