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Nuclear power may be the key to least-cost, zero-emission electricity systems

carnegiescience.edu

11–20 of 88 posts

Re: Nuclear power may be the key to least-cost, zero-emission electricity systems

#11
post #6
post #2

Why is it so hard to grasp: we don't want to trade our toxic carbon byproduct for toxic fission byproduct?

Why not? It is not so bad deal... Also what other options we have, trade to toxic byproducts of renewables?

Are you seriously comparing the byproducts of creating renewable energy to the byproducts of nuclear energy?

If you ask 100 people, 99 will tell you that they rather live next to a solar panel or a silicon extraction mine than next to a nuclear power plant or a uranium mine.

Re: Nuclear power may be the key to least-cost, zero-emission electricity systems

#12
post #2

Why is it so hard to grasp: we don't want to trade our toxic carbon byproduct for toxic fission byproduct?

you do know this "toxic fission product" is natural? so why would it bother you if we just put it back from where it came from originally? unless you think nuclear material comes out of thin air.

Re: Nuclear power may be the key to least-cost, zero-emission electricity systems

#13
post #3
post #2

Why is it so hard to grasp: we don't want to trade our toxic carbon byproduct for toxic fission byproduct?

There must be some stable backup for renewables. Nuclear is not perfect, but it's the best by a long shot compared to anything else, according to statistics (including all disasters!).

Nuclear is a terrible "backup" for renewables.

Renewables fluctuate. Nuclear is not great at scaling, and most reactors cannot be shut down without taking weeks and months for safe re-starting.

Nuclear is good for base load. And countries that have a lot of (really expensive) nuclear to cover their base load, have zero incentive to invest into renewables, since its output would just become surplus.

For broad adoption of renewables, we need to accompany it with (hopefully clean) solutions that can buffer and restore surplus energy efficiently and most importantly scale up and down really fast, to smooth out the fluctuations. Keeping a constant 50 Hz is becoming increasingly difficult with renewables.

In the past Austria used to store (nightly) surpulus energy from german nuclear reactors and (more recent also renewables) and getting paid to do so, to feed it into the own network and also selling abroad during daytime. This was stopped because it was putting a lot of strain on the north-south bottlenecks in the German power network, aggravated by large wind farms in the north, that became capable of covering the whole German power use for short periods of time.

Re: Nuclear power may be the key to least-cost, zero-emission electricity systems

#14
post #2

Why is it so hard to grasp: we don't want to trade our toxic carbon byproduct for toxic fission byproduct?

Yes we do want to trade that. The toxic carbon byproduct goes into the air and causes massive disruption to the lives of billions of people. The toxic fission byproduct is tiny and goes underground in the middle of the desert and disrupts zero people's lives.

Because constructing nuclear power plants and mining uranium don't have toxic carbon byproducts?

What are the toxic byproducts you are talking about specifically?

> The toxic fission byproduct is tiny and goes underground in the middle of the desert and disrupts zero people's lives.

Haha, if it were that easy. Nuclear waste can be radioactive up to 1 million years. Can you give me an example of a successful long-term nuclear storage facility that exists today? All we're doing currently is storing nuclear waste in temporary storage and rolling over the need to deal with this problem to future generations.

Re: Nuclear power may be the key to least-cost, zero-emission electricity systems

#16
post #2

Why is it so hard to grasp: we don't want to trade our toxic carbon byproduct for toxic fission byproduct?

We want that - amounts of fission byproduct are so much smaller in comparison to what you get by burning coal.

Finland has one of the most advanced fission byproduct storages in the world and they are so freaking compact. Like, it's nothing like that green glowing substance they show in movies.

Oh, and they will make money on it fast forward few decades, that fission byproduct will be fuel for future generation stations.

Re: Nuclear power may be the key to least-cost, zero-emission electricity systems

#17
These sentences sum up the article quite well:

"Previous studies have shown that curbing 80 percent of carbon emissions can be achieved by ramping up wind and solar power harvesting installations"

and

"To nail down that last 10 or 20 percent of decarbonization, we need to have more tools in our toolbox, and not just wind and solar,"

The "more tools" may be nuclear or it may be storage, depending on the cost of both technologies in the future:

"Added Caldeira: “Our analysis looked at the cheapest way to eliminate carbon dioxide emissions assuming today’s prices..at today’s price, nuclear is the cheapest way to eliminate all electricity-system carbon emissions nearly everywhere...if energy storage technologies became very cheap, then wind and solar could potentially be the least-cost path to a zero-emission electricity system.”"

IMO, it seems too early to bet on either, so carry on developing both until more data is available.

Re: Nuclear power may be the key to least-cost, zero-emission electricity systems

#18
post #11
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? It is not so bad deal... Also what other options we have, trade to toxic byproducts of renewables?

Are you seriously comparing the byproducts of creating renewable energy to the byproducts of nuclear energy? If you ask 100 people, 99 will tell you that they rather live next to a solar panel or a silicon extraction mine than next to a nuclear power plant or a uranium mine.

and they might be wrong in thinking that

Re: Nuclear power may be the key to least-cost, zero-emission electricity systems

#19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes we do want to trade that. The toxic carbon byproduct goes into the air and causes massive disruption to the lives of billions of people. The toxic fission byproduct is tiny and goes underground in the middle of the desert and disrupts zero people's lives.

Because constructing nuclear power plants and mining uranium don't have toxic carbon byproducts? What are the toxic byproducts you are talking about specifically? > The toxic fission byproduct is tiny and goes underground in the middle of the desert and disrupts zero people's lives. Haha, if it were that easy. Nuclear waste can be radioactive up to 1 million years. Can you give me an example of a successful long-term…

Nuclear power may be kicking the can down the road, but burning coal is just leaving the can for our immediate offspring already in their 20s and 30s.

The article says least-cost, we're fresh out of perfect solutions.

Re: Nuclear power may be the key to least-cost, zero-emission electricity systems

#20
post #11
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? It is not so bad deal... Also what other options we have, trade to toxic byproducts of renewables?

Are you seriously comparing the byproducts of creating renewable energy to the byproducts of nuclear energy? If you ask 100 people, 99 will tell you that they rather live next to a solar panel or a silicon extraction mine than next to a nuclear power plant or a uranium mine.

So?

If you ask 100 people, 99 will tell you they would rather buy new electronics every year and throw away the old, and they would rider drive a huge SUV than walk or bike.

That doesn't mean it's a good thing.

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