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U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline

#11

Post by friedturkey »

bradknowles wrote: post #8
consp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3$/gallon sounds so cheap to me. I'm paying almost 2.5$/liter. I'm pretty sure that will reduce emissions massively more than any change in fuel composition wherever the fuel comes from.

That’s European-style taxes for you. Sadly. You get a lot of benefits from European-style government, like socialized medicine. But then you also have to pay those taxes.

Or just countries that don't subsidize fuel or cheaply produce it on their own.

Taxes are just one factor in the price.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline

#12

Post by jillesvangurp »

Corn in the US is mostly used for harmful purposes. It's used for producing fodder for intensive cattle farming (which of course produces lots of CO2). It's used for biofuel production, which as the article observes releases more CO2 than that it saves. And it's used for producing corn syrup which is an ingredient that nobody needs in their diet.

The rest, which would be usage for e.g. corn bread or other staples of North American cuisine, is of course fine. Nothing wrong with e.g. organically farmed corn. It's a crop that does well under a wide range of circumstances and popular for that reason all over the world. And as a grain, it's an important part of food production.

So, why does this exist? Very simple, federal subsidies to states that have become very dependent on that. Kill the subsidies and that whole industry slowly dies. That would be a good thing. Maybe repurpose the subsidies to have those farmers do something that actually is more productive and less harmful.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline

#14

Post by assttoasstmgr »

I never understood why I could never find E85 at any gas station on the west coast. It was once tersely explained to me that it was "bad for the environment". Yet, the Brazilians have been powering vehicles with ethanol since the late 70s.

I have to wonder if everyone who likewise owned a hybrid or EV knew that there was a chance some child in the Congo was mining the cobalt used to manufacture the batteries.

Unfortunately I don't believe we live in a perfect world. Every solution to climate issues just seems to shift the problems elsewhere. Success is declared when the issue disappears over the horizon.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline

#15

Post by panny »

invalidator wrote: post #5

This article misses a key point: Ethanol is used to oxygenate the fuel, which reduces carbon monoxide and soot emissions. It replaced MTBE in that role. It was never intended to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Producing it requires more energy than it provides, and this was known long before it was introduced. It might be possible to power the production with renewable energy, but that's just extra steps for powerin…

That's revisionist history,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSlNzgvogxk

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline

#16

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

bradknowles wrote: post #8
consp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3$/gallon sounds so cheap to me. I'm paying almost 2.5$/liter. I'm pretty sure that will reduce emissions massively more than any change in fuel composition wherever the fuel comes from.

That’s European-style taxes for you. Sadly. You get a lot of benefits from European-style government, like socialized medicine. But then you also have to pay those taxes.

Money well spent.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline

#17

Post by hedora »

assttoasstmgr wrote: post #14

I never understood why I could never find E85 at any gas station on the west coast. It was once tersely explained to me that it was "bad for the environment". Yet, the Brazilians have been powering vehicles with ethanol since the late 70s. I have to wonder if everyone who likewise owned a hybrid or EV knew that there was a chance some child in the Congo was mining the cobalt used to manufacture the batteries. Unfortu…

Brazilian E85 is made from sugar cane, not corn. It’s significantly less carbon-intensive.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline

#18

Post by assttoasstmgr »

hedora wrote: post #17
assttoasstmgr wrote: post #14

I never understood why I could never find E85 at any gas station on the west coast. It was once tersely explained to me that it was "bad for the environment". Yet, the Brazilians have been powering vehicles with ethanol since the late 70s. I have to wonder if everyone who likewise owned a hybrid or EV knew that there was a chance some child in the Congo was mining the cobalt used to manufacture the batteries. Unfortu…

Brazilian E85 is made from sugar cane, not corn. It’s significantly less carbon-intensive.

Correct. However, Brazil's gasohol program was developed as a response to shortages produced by the 1973 oil crisis. Sugar cane is plentiful in Brazil, unlike Nebraska; it was not chosen for its carbon properties.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline

#19

Post by njarboe »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #12

Corn in the US is mostly used for harmful purposes. It's used for producing fodder for intensive cattle farming (which of course produces lots of CO2). It's used for biofuel production, which as the article observes releases more CO2 than that it saves. And it's used for producing corn syrup which is an ingredient that nobody needs in their diet. The rest, which would be usage for e.g. corn bread or other staples of…

Iowa has the first primary every year in the US[1]. Iowa produces more corn than any state[2] while being 32nd in population. Corn is very important to people in Iowa and as long as the first two facts remain the same, corn will continue to be highly subsidized and supported in other ways by the US government.

[1]https://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2024-primary-sche... [2]https://www.cropprophet.com/us-corn-production-by-state/

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline

#20

Post by assttoasstmgr »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #12

Corn in the US is mostly used for harmful purposes. It's used for producing fodder for intensive cattle farming (which of course produces lots of CO2). It's used for biofuel production, which as the article observes releases more CO2 than that it saves. And it's used for producing corn syrup which is an ingredient that nobody needs in their diet. The rest, which would be usage for e.g. corn bread or other staples of…

> Kill the subsidies and that whole industry slowly dies. That would be a good thing. Maybe repurpose the subsidies to have those farmers do something that actually is more productive and less harmful.

So once we've put all the farmers out of work and declared success, what do you suggest they do that is "more productive"? Should they lease their corn fields to crypto bros?

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