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Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#721

Post by sfink »

throwaway4200 wrote: post #561
generalizations wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Get a CEO/upper management that are in it for the passion, not the money, and cut their salaries (bonuses tied directly to increase in Firefox market share). They fired the CEO that knew what he was doing. Personally, I think Mozilla is getting what they asked for.

What makes you think Brendan Eich would have been a good CEO? He was CTO of Mozilla during the period that Chrome was eating Firefox's lunch. He was probably more responsible for Firefox product decisions at that time than CEO Mitchell Baker.

Point of clarification: Mitchell Baker was not CEO at that time (and never had been). She was chair of the board. The previous full CEO was Gary Kovacs, succeeded by acting CEO Jay Sullivan, then Eich for 9 days.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#722

Post by iudqnolq »

dvogel wrote: post #710
tored wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you have to ask yourself why everyone is using V8 as their JavaScript runtime and not Mozilla’s equivalent or why every alternative browser is using Chrome as a foundation. Or XUL wasn’t packaged as cross platform GUI framework. And then of course the Firefox mobile fiasco. My guess is that the engineering and management don’t interact. Two different companies within the same company, no coherent vision.

What FF mobile fiasco are you speaking of? I am using FF mobile happily and have been for years. I haven't noticed any issues with it. Was there a business level fiasco or something?

They banned all add-ons and have been slowly whitelisting them back.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#723

Post by bendhoefs »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #492
heyitsanewacco wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unsaid part is that Google keeps Firefox alive so that they are not hit by anti-trust over in-browser search. That's why FF will always trail Chrome, its the designated loser. If it weren't for anti-trust, Google would have bought out Mozilla years ago.

You can't buy out an open source project. If Google bought it out and started messing with it, there would be an immediate outcry and Firefox would end up with the community fork winning out, just like it happened with MySQL and OpenOffice.

A browser would not do well as a volunteer driven open-source project. It is simply too big and too complex to be able to get by without full-time paid developers.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#724

Post by peanut_worm »

Dissolve the Mozilla Foundation and put everything into browser development. I got some weird email about how valentines day sucks(?) from Mozilla this morning that was somehow supposed to convince me to donate or something. I don’t understand how a software company’s software became an afterthought. I almost think Google is paying them to purposely mismanage Firefox.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#725

Post by StillBored »

godelski wrote: post #474
selfhoster11 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox promises all these things, but I think that by and large the problem is that it just doesn't deliver on them for the average person. And average person is how we get the market share and safety in numbers.

FF definitely offers more privacy for the average person when compared to Chrome. I'm not sure what you're talking about. That normal people don't care? Well that's why I said the conversation about "products" was fine for the average person but not here on HN where we're experts and there's more nuance.

Right, I've never walked by my computer at midnight to discover its awake and hammering the disk scanning everything that's installed on my machines like chrome does.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#726

Post by sfink »

simondotau wrote: post #628
tored wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox is inferior still. It has problems with memory, performance, rendering and battery drainage. Every year I switch to Firefox and use it as a main browser. It usually goes for a month and then I need to switch again because Firefox has too many glitches. Firefox has had a bad policy of not fixing the basics first before new features. I do use Firefox as my main development browser still but that is because I’m…

That's funny, because I've had the same experience as you—but in the opposite direction. In my experience, Chrome has problems with memory, performance, rendering and battery drainage. Every now and then I try to use Chrome (or a derivative) as secondary browser and I give up because it has noticeably higher latency for simple web page loads, and more likely to suffer irritating repaint flashes.

(I work for Mozilla, but don't speak for them.)

You're both right.

It's a common story -- people use browser A, start noticing a variety of problems, switch to browser B and everything is so much better. After a while, they start noticing a variety of problems, switch to browser A, and once again everything is so much better.

Those people are not being stupid, that is their real experience.

Sometimes the problem is in a web site (an update starts leaking memory, for example) and whatever browser is running gets blamed.

Sometimes it's just natural human bias—we want to see patterns, and we want there to be a solution ("just switch browsers!"), so we get selective in what we notice and don't notice.

Sometimes it's because profile cruft piles up, and resetting would fix it.

Sometimes the problems really are in one browser and not the other. There are plenty of legitimate problems to be found, and things change pretty rapidly.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#727

Post by na85 »

cglong wrote: post #308
jasondclinton wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because Firefox allows uBlock on Android. Browsing the mobile web with ad-block is such a huge quality improvement.

You could also use Brave or (Kiwi + uBlock Origin) on Android, both of which are Chromium derivatives.

I'm continually surprised that people trust Brave. It's got shitcoins baked right in; the definition of a scam.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#728

Post by autoexec »

zerocrates wrote: post #675
panta wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and imho firefox should even bet more on user privacy (for example adopting strong measures against fingerprinting, and migrating away from google as a default search engine).

They recently signed a new deal with Google, and those deals more or less completely fund the development of Firefox, so I don't see a change there happening any time soon. I think the major problem with a privacy focus from a business perspective is that not enough people care. So you have to spend both a lot of time and effort _being_ better at privacy and then also a bunch of time and effort trying to convince peo…

> . So you have to spend both a lot of time and effort _being_ better at privacy and then also a bunch of time and effort trying to convince people that it matters.

The good news for Mozilla is that the task of trying to inform the public on privacy issues doesn't fall to browser makers alone. Many businesses spanning multiple industries are offering services for people looking for better privacy and they're working to convince more people of the need. There are also several non-profits and online communities which are spreading the message about the importance of privacy and security. The news media also often reports on abuses of our data as they are discovered. As more and more people become aware of how they're being screwed over as a result of handing out the intimate details of their lives like candy the market will grow.

The bad news is that the largest and most powerful companies are making money hand over fist exploiting our private and personal data and they're working hard to normalize it and shield themselves from legal responsibility. The influence and money they possess, along with support from the state which also benefits by taking copies of that data for themselves is no small hurdle to overcome, but the entire system isn't sustainable if we really want freedom and equality so at a certain point the tide has to turn or we fall into total oppression.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#729

Post by na85 »

paulcole wrote: post #648
BossingAround wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what you need. Go and try Firefox. As a person that uses Firefox as a daily driver, both at work and at home usage, I can't recall when I had to switch to Chrome. In 2010, maybe. I don't know what other "awe-inspiring endorsement" you need. Firefox did not save my marriage nor did it make me a million dollars, no.

Do you use Firefox because it’s a better browser or because of philosophical reasons? If it’s the former, then I want to know that somebody thinks it’s the best way to browse the web. If it’s the latter, then tell me it’s worse but the politics of supporting Google are distasteful to you. Don’t tell me it’s “very usable” because I’m going to interpret it as the latter which may or may not be correct.

>I want to know that somebody thinks it’s the best way to browse the web

I think it's the best way to browse the web.

Chrome on Android, at least, doesn't allow ad blocking. Who the fuck in The Year of Our Lord 2022 doesn't use ad blocking?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#730

Post by perryizgr8 »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #2

They should focus on saving Firefox. - Cut out all (or at the very least, most) initiatives that don't serve the goal of promoting Firefox's market share or sustainability going forward - Donate the major money drains that aren't Firefox to the Apache Foundation or another worthy custodian - Fire all inessential staff that don't want to work on Firefox. - Get a CEO/upper management that are in it for the passion, not…

I'll add one more to this:

Use all/most of the money from the Google deal to build a fund. Even doing this for a couple years will build a huge backup plan for Firefox and they can look at not relying on the deal for survival. Instead work off the interest earned on the fund.

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