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Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#701

Post by MattyRad »

My 2 cents, I think the browser wars are lost, handily. We should start focusing on contingency plans.

I don't think we all agree on what the impact of Firefox market share evaporation is, but my main concern is Google having totalitarian control of the internet: the Browser and Search.

To combat that, I would focus on decreasing the reliance on browser specific tech (specifically: javascript, but also html/css, and maybe HTTP to a certain degree), ensuring that that the web can be browsed without being at the mercy of the client. Return to servers front-loading the entirety of web content. Obviously this would require a massive cultural shift.... The ethics of web dev would have to be shared by vegan-comparable evangelists. (I realize how unrealistic this is after typing it)

I would also try to produce a PoC search engine that mercilessly punishes the ad-driven web, which - we've all noticed- is becoming increasingly pervasive.

Accomplishing these two things, I wouldn't be too concerned about Firefox specifically. Obviously these are immense- perhaps unrealistic goals- but it's what comes to mind.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#702

Post by sciurus »

tomxor wrote: post #687
sciurus wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are all valid points, but Mozilla's own telemetry shows their userbase shrinking. https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity

many users turn off that telemetry, including me.

It's an interesting question if the percentage of users with telemetry disabled has increased a meaningful amount over time.

Mozilla has actually done some work to measure users with telemetry disabled; see the "telemetry coverage" section of https://blog.mozilla.org/data/2018/08/20/effectively-measuri...

I'm not sure how frequently they've done this or if any of the data has been made public.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#703

Post by Valord »

sockaddr wrote: post #71
phkahler wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> We as a community, cannot afford to let Firefox languish until the only browsers in the world are Chromium derivatives. The diversity of truly independent browser engines is far too important to give up without a fight. There are a lot of people oh HN who agree with that but then use a different browser for whatever reason. I feel like these people are being very hypocritical and should use what they want to succe…

Recently switched to Linux and only installed Firefox. When you force yourself to use it, it's doable. I think only once in the last 6 months did a website not work (my dumb HOA website). Other than that, it's more than sufficient. It crashes sometimes but if that's the price for not having coercive software controlling my life, so be it.

My data point, FF has worked fine for me on MacOS and Windows for years.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#704

Post by Throwawayaerlei »

ashwagary wrote: post #559
sebmellen wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The arrogance is hard to believe. > In 2018 she received a total of $2,458,350 in compensation from Mozilla, which represents a 400% payrise since 2008. On the same period, Firefox marketshare was down 85%. When asked about her salary she stated "I learned that my pay was about an 80% discount to market. Meaning that competitive roles elsewhere were paying about 5 times as much. That's too big a discount to ask peopl…

Atleast 200% of that payrise makes sense due to inflation. Value of the dollar halved during the past ~10 years.

Unless I calculated wrong 19% in the past 10 years. According to the https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm $100 in January 2012 has the buying power of $124.04 last month.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#706

Post by [deleted] »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #447
twblalock wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$1m is senior engineering manager compensation in the valley at several companies just a short drive away from Mozilla’s offices. It’s far below CEO compensation. Anyone who is capable of succeeding as the CEO of Mozilla would be giving up millions of dollars they could easily make elsewhere in the valley if they took only $1m as their comp.

So? Not the entire world is US-based. Tech salaries in USD are way out of whack compared to elsewhere. I also bet that for the type of challenges facing Firefox and with my proposed reforms, a motivated senior engineer who knows what they are doing would be just as good or better compared to a standard CEO.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#707

Post by 5F7bGnd6fWJ66xN »

Firefox should stop taking money from Google. Instead get a consortium of FAANG companies to bid and pay for traffic and rotate the benefits on a regular basis. Attract best in breed developers by advertising their contributions in the webpage.Lobby government to have Firefox included in all operating systems shipped with OS

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#708

Post by voidlogic »

antod wrote: post #539
alpaca128 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't remember Firefox crashing in recent years and that includes times I approached 2000 open tabs. Though after using the same profile for over 5 years now it has trouble remembering the color scheme for whatever reason.

I never had Firefox crashes until Ubuntu 21.10 which I think made Firefox a snap, now I get crashes when it tries to load fonts. And I get that colour scheme thing now too.

You can still run firefox as normal app, and it's rock solid.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#709

Post by victor106 »

sebmellen wrote: post #267
Jayakumark wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current CEO is a cancer to Mozilla, her main goal seems like to make more money personally before Mozilla goes bankrupt. As long is as she is there - there is no hope https://itdm.com/mozilla-firefox-usage-down-85-but-why-are-e...

The arrogance is hard to believe. > In 2018 she received a total of $2,458,350 in compensation from Mozilla, which represents a 400% payrise since 2008. On the same period, Firefox marketshare was down 85%. When asked about her salary she stated "I learned that my pay was about an 80% discount to market. Meaning that competitive roles elsewhere were paying about 5 times as much. That's too big a discount to ask peopl…

from her Wikipedia page

> Baker was trained as a lawyer. She coordinates business and policy issues.

I don't know of any lawyers running a successful tech company.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#710

Post by dvogel »

tored wrote: post #666
StillBored wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but consider the engineering effort to create a general purpose memory safe language vs just a domain specific one in comparison to the work required to write a browser, which also includes another domain specific language (javascript). Seat of the pants, I would say getting something like rust on par with g++/clang code generation, and 3rd party tools is probably in the same ballpark engineering wise as actuall…

Yes, you have to ask yourself why everyone is using V8 as their JavaScript runtime and not Mozilla’s equivalent or why every alternative browser is using Chrome as a foundation. Or XUL wasn’t packaged as cross platform GUI framework. And then of course the Firefox mobile fiasco. My guess is that the engineering and management don’t interact. Two different companies within the same company, no coherent vision.

What FF mobile fiasco are you speaking of? I am using FF mobile happily and have been for years. I haven't noticed any issues with it. Was there a business level fiasco or something?
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