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Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

reuters.com

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Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#861

Post by lowkey »

gpm wrote: post #425
rajin444 wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is ample evidence of the Canadian government breaking the law for their own benefit and there is ample evidence for these occurrences being “significant”. And that’s not even taking into account that once trust is broken there are likely many more instances that aren’t known.

So by "significant" I'm excluding nonsense like this [1] where the government comes up with a creative (incorrect) interpretation of the law, and things like "a few rogue members of the government break the law" (e.g. [2]). Neither of those would explain a government entity hacking this website to leak this data in an attempt to benefit the government. I can't produce evidence that there isn't a history of actions li…

One relevant example of the Canadian gov breaking the law and lying about it until they were caught was the 2007 Security and Prosperity Partnership protests in Montebello Quebec. In that case the government used agent provocateurs (provoking agents) who were dressed as protesters while initiating violence to paint the protesters in a bad light. The linked Wikipedia article lists several other examples. [0]

That said, I don't think the state was the responsible party for this attack.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur#Canada

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#862

Post by kbelder »

mcguire wrote: post #633
jcadam wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next time this happens, public health agencies will be dealing with large swaths of their populations who have zero (actually, negative) trust in them and refuse to comply with any and all measures from day one.

How would that differ from the last two years?

It will be much worse.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#863

Post by soared »

billbrown wrote: post #170
soared wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought these protests were negatively affecting working class neighborhoods as well by honking horns during the night? I’m not holding a strong opinion on the subject but it’s kind of silly bias to compare this to blm with your phrasing. Blacks have been through much much worse for hundreds of years, so the truckers going through troubling times for 2 years doesn’t really justify the comparison.

No person protesting during the BLM riots had "gone through much worse for hundreds of years." The truckers had personally experienced the thing they are protesting against (or would be affected by it going forward).

I can’t tell if this comment is implying African Americans have not experienced racism or negative systemic impacts in their own lifetime.

Or is this just pedantry that an individual can’t live for hundreds of years, and ignoring the actual point of if your parents are uneducated dirt poor then you will likely be uneducated dirt poor. Which is what I’m talking about.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#864

Post by dukeofdoom »

sudosysgen wrote: post #839
dukeofdoom wrote: post #794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can put you in prison, and take your car and seize your life savings and property for protesting them, or for giving money for protestors that lost the means to support themselves. Not sure what you're talking about...they decide what is an illegal protest. They will even force tow truck companies to force them to tow protestors vehicles. And Trudeau just admitted he used American companies to tow Canadian vehic…

No, they can't do that for protesting or giving people money. They can freeze accounts temporarily, that's true, they can't take your money. They can take your car if you block the road and refuse to remove it, yes. That's called getting impounded, and it happens everyday. They can fine you or imprison you for a blockade, yes. That's always been the law. And yes, they can force companies to provide services during an…

You keep giving them the benefit of the doubt, without any logical reason to. They have taken more and more rights away and used divisive strategies to do it at every step.

We are going onto the third year of emergency measures. The government's response to people protesting their emergency measures is to double down with even more emergency measures. The Truck drivers that are currently protesting did so because their ability to feed their family was taken away from them. These are middle aged men with families, with no easily transferable skills. Yesterday was the truck drivers, next day might be you. Don't wake up one day when the boot is crushing your balls. At least be honest with yourself, and make a line beyond which you will not retreat.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#865

Post by throwaway894345 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #845
throwaway894345 wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Occasionally self-defense laws protect guilty people, but that doesn't imply that the law isn't a self-defense law . I'm sure there's lots of good criticism of this law, but characterizing it as the OP did is patent dishonesty. Even Vox wasn't willing to go that far ffs.

Self defense was already a thing. Why the need for new legislation?

For the purpose of your claim that the law legalized killing protesters, it doesn’t matter.

That said, per my previous comment, there may be lots to criticize about this law, including that it may have been superfluous. I’m not a lawyer, but my best guess is that existing self-defense law didn’t clearly absolve the victim of injury or death to bystanders as she pursued her own safety. But again, none of that has anything to do with what’s going on in Canada.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#866

Post by throwaway894345 »

sudosysgen wrote: post #840
throwaway894345 wrote: post #768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You specifically likened it to assault. A noisy protest is annoying and it can disturb the quiet but it isn’t harmful in any sense that could be considered assault.

As with anything, there is nuance. A noisy protest is merely annoying , a 140dB train horn less than ten meters away is assault .

Granted. Arrest the people with the 140dB train horns.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#867

Post by mastazi »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #842
mastazi wrote: post #733

As a fully vaccinated person who thinks that people who disagree with me should have rights, and who values freedom more than wealth, I'm proud that my name is on that list.

As a fully vaccinated person who understands that the point of every law in a democratic society is for the benefit of everybody (including myself) at the expense of my own liberty, I am proud that my name is not on that list. When you increase community immunity, you can reduce a pandemic to an endemic (a disease that causes only a few hospitalizations each year and doesn't threaten rationing care). This means busin…

> the point of every law in a democratic society is for the benefit of everybody

provably false.

So are you saying that my parents and grandparents, who went on strike and participated in worker unions, were wrong, and that they should have accepted labour laws as they were back then, since those laws were conceived in a democratic society hence they were fair by definition?

> When you increase community immunity

we already have that, in many advanced economies, including Australia where I live, we are now at 80-90% vaccination rates, which is what the WHO identified as a goal; we will never reach 100% even if we were living in a techno-dictatorship, because some people can't be vaccinated for medical reasons. As a vaccinated person, you have to be aware that when you go to a public place not everyone around you is vaccinated, this can't be changed regardless of what happens to the truckers.

> barbecuing on days with poor air circulation,

preventing someone from having a barbie on a certain day vs. firing someone from their job - not exactly two comparable situations

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#868

Post by dendriti »

tablespoon wrote: post #818
throw10920 wrote: post #799

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I challenge you to find earplugs that can be worn 24h a day without any physical discomfort, provide 60dB of attenuation across a wide range of frequencies (these horns probably span low 100's of Hz to mid kHz), and are reasonably inexpensive. Even if you could find such beasts (which I don't think you can), then you have the problem that you effectively can't use your hearing. You thought that social interactions we…

> I challenge you to find earplugs that can be worn 24h a day without any physical discomfort, provide 60dB of attenuation across a wide range of frequencies (these horns probably span low 100's of Hz to mid kHz), and are reasonably inexpensive. > Even if you could find such beasts (which I don't think you can), then you have the problem that you effectively can't use your hearing. You thought that social interaction…

What about young children? You have a handwavy method to get a toddler to wear silicone earplugs for 8 hours a night?

Judging by your post history, you seem to be more interested in stirring up shit than actually contributing to the discussion. This bizarre defence of noisemaking jackasses fits with that.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#869

Post by giantg2 »

flyingcircus3 wrote: post #860
flyingcircus3 wrote: post #847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely that fallacy. You're holding the 2020 BLM protests up as being far worse. In fact, you've quantified just how bad they were, as a means of demonstrating that these protests are not as bad. The fallacy is not the claim that this isn't a problem, but that its not nearly as bad as this other problem, and therefore not worthy of the reaction. Many of the large auto manufacturers shutdown production lines in re…

@giantg2 The fallacy is claiming that one is not as bad because the other exists. You seem to be defending your comments from absolute privation. I refer to the first comment I replied to, >That says a lot if that's what a violent protest looks like in Canada when the "peaceful" ones in the US involve millions of dollars in property damage and numerous injuries or deaths. Isn't pedantry fun?

Perhaps you read that with a different meaning than it was written with. As I've repeatedly said, it's about the bias in reporting. You seem to not be accepting this. Might I remind you that one of the guidelines of this site is to interpret comments charitably.

You misinterpreted my comment and attacked it as being a fallacy. I explained myself and you attacked further, in the process stating a fallacy of your own. Now you are calling this pedantry. Yet you have not responded to the majority of my comments.

Why would I not correct you when you are saying that I'm saying things I'm not?

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#870

Post by talentedcoin »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #795
talentedcoin wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if I'm being charitable, that's exactly the question mark here. There are reports of intimidation and other bad behaviour, but there are also a whole bunch of other people just enjoying the party atmosphere. I think both narratives can be true. To be clear, some of the honking has been going on 18+ hours a day, which is bad, but there are suggestions of worse things under the surface. This happened a couple wee…

I think your standard for “peaceful protest” seems unreasonable. How many large scale protests have there been which had zero reports of “bad behavior”? Can you name any protest in the last 5 years whose scale was comparable to these protests which had no reports of bad behavior?

That’s a fair point. The way I see it is:

1) This is pretty severe by Canadian standards (we don’t have the same kind of protest culture the US does), but more importantly,

2) If nobody was driving their trucks up to Parliament Hill (and if the demands the protestors were initially making weren’t as wild — although obviously there’s room to disagree, as we have here, regarding how serious they are), then I would agree. The mandates and COVID itself have definitely caused a lot of disruption and it’s our right to peacefully protest what the govt does. But the moment you bring commercial vehicles into the mix you are not, imo, a protestor anymore. Especially when you have prominent voices in the US egging it on, sending them money, etc. For what it’s worth I think the blockades on the border are at least as bad if not worse than what’s going on in Ottawa.

I confess to being not overly sympathetic to protest culture generally, but I believe a free society must tolerate protests. However, I think what’s happening now has moved somewhat beyond what we should tolerate.

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