Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#521

Post by ashwagary » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 10:46 PM UTC

rpnx wrote: post #473

My thoughts on this are that every time I see a news piece about Firefox it's about "social justice", some code of conduct controversy, or something else utterly unimportant to web browser selection. Being "Open Source" does nothing for me when Firefox engages in the same crap as other closed source browsers, like Pocket. Mozilla also allowed social issues to take precedence over retaining good engineers. Whether you…

>even assholes have a basic right to exist

>I don't give a shit how nice the developers who made my web browser are.

I dont either, but do their coworkers care? If so, they should be disciplined or fired depending on behavior.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#522

Post by eigenrick » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 10:46 PM UTC

rpnx wrote: post #473

My thoughts on this are that every time I see a news piece about Firefox it's about "social justice", some code of conduct controversy, or something else utterly unimportant to web browser selection. Being "Open Source" does nothing for me when Firefox engages in the same crap as other closed source browsers, like Pocket. Mozilla also allowed social issues to take precedence over retaining good engineers. Whether you…

I think this post assumes that Firefox is an inferior browser, and that the cause is mismanagement.

But is Firefox an inferior browser? I think it used to be, but over the last couple years, it has made massive improvements in features and performance. I use it in both desktop and mobile, and I prefer it over Chrome.

As a software engineer, I rely heavily on my browser for work. For me, the multi-account containers in Firefox are the must-have feature. No other browser can offer the ease of separating multiple test accounts, and multiple gmail/gsuite accounts for multiple enterprises separate.

Also, I like how Lockwise on mobile is divorced from the browser, making it easy to use it to manage passwords across websites and apps.

Maybe the problem with Mozilla, then, is marketing. Maybe not enough people know that Firefox is much, much better than it used to be. Or maybe the general sentiment is echoed in your post. People don't feel that Mozilla is focused on writing good software, so they don't expect Firefox to be good.

Personally, I think the biggest cause for the loss of market share is simple: Safari is the default on iOS and Chrome is the default on Android, and population of mobile devices is exploding, and there are no mainstream mobile devices that are carrying Firefox with it.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#523

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 10:46 PM UTC

soapdog wrote: post #438

The amount of people in HN who think they can do a better job at being the CEO of every company; or being the president of any country; or being better than whoever is trying to something, astounds me. Dudes, if saving Firefox was so easy that could be described in a single comment like that, it would have been saved already. There are more people at Mozilla than the CEO, she is not responsible for all decisions. She…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#524

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 10:46 PM UTC

StillBored wrote: post #483

snird wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And she raised her pay while firing essential engineers: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/313658-mozilla-fires-2... I'm a firefox user for over 10 years. I think I'm now convinced there is no future, I'll have to start to adapt to another browser now. I'll give Vivaldi a try.

That was the layoff where they got rid of all the rust people? Its going to sound harsh, but they are loosing market share to browsers that didn't have to invent a new language to write a browser in. So, getting rid of those people was probably a positive impact for firefox since they were mostly just yak shaving instead of actually improving the end product. The users don't care if you wrote it in C++ or fortran as…

> or create giant backdoors.

Using memory safe languages is a big step towards this goal.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#525

Post by maccam94 » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 10:46 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #413

Barrin92 wrote: post #320

>Why is Firefox losing marketshare very simple answer, because Mozilla doesn't control the infrastructure that runs on 80% of smartphones in the world and ships Firefox as the default browser. It really has nothing to do with the bespoke features that people on HN pay attention to. Firefox doesn't control any platform and defaults matter. There's a reason Google pays them a gazillion dollars to be the standard search…

Microsoft was forced to allow browser choice in the EU. I don't see why Apple and Google shouldn't be subject to the same, with the added condition that browser rendering engine diversity gets preferential treatment. Give users a 60% chance to see Firefox as the first option, then show them the multitude of Chrome/Safari-based browsers.

The problem is that even when that choice is given, every Google search pushes Chrome, Microsoft constantly pushes you to switch to Edge. I'm not sure how much Apple pushes Safari, but last I heard it actually gives superior battery life on Mac OS so there's a real technical reason to not use Firefox.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#526

Post by spion » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 10:47 PM UTC

StillBored wrote: post #483

snird wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And she raised her pay while firing essential engineers: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/313658-mozilla-fires-2... I'm a firefox user for over 10 years. I think I'm now convinced there is no future, I'll have to start to adapt to another browser now. I'll give Vivaldi a try.

That was the layoff where they got rid of all the rust people? Its going to sound harsh, but they are loosing market share to browsers that didn't have to invent a new language to write a browser in. So, getting rid of those people was probably a positive impact for firefox since they were mostly just yak shaving instead of actually improving the end product. The users don't care if you wrote it in C++ or fortran as…

Mozilla didn't really invent Rust, and its looking quite likely that Rust is going to be just as significant of a contribution to the world as Firefox was (long term).

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#527

Post by gboone » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 10:47 PM UTC

Just to add what I see as a positive move, there is progress regarding multiple mic selection in webrtc. This is the kind of thing that practically matters to me, and there is work being done as far as I can tell. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1238038

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#528

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 10:49 PM UTC

fuzzy2 wrote: post #149

softwarebeware wrote: post #31

Firefox is losing marketshare because Chrome is the default browser on Android devices and Android devices are the number one device in the world. Most people don't even know how to change their default browser. I don't think Firefox needs saving. Those who use it are active and committed to it.

> Those who use it are active and committed to it. Are they though? Are they so very committed they'll take all the crap Mozilla throws at them? Because Mozilla sure is trying their very best to get rid of Firefox users.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#529

Post by yeeeloit » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 10:50 PM UTC

bentcorner wrote: post #88

garciasn wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They offer nothing I cannot get elsewhere and thus I have no reason to switch. When it first came out, Firefox was faster, lighter and offered way better function than the alternatives at the time. Since then, competition has been fierce in the browser market and they’ve done little to distinguish themselves in any major way from their competitive set. Until they do something so vastly incomparable in the market, the…

Take a look at tree-style tabs. I started using them in FF and have looked several times at chromium-based add-ins and absolutely nothing comes close. Edge vertical tabs is your best choice if you must use a chromium browser, however it is a weak imitation of TST.

What are you talking about exactly? Is this an extension for FF?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#530

Post by egberts1 » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 10:50 PM UTC

First step: ditch the CxO-suite payroll; Mozilla has turned into a giant C-suite sucking sound on its finance and has gone blind to its original tenet.

2. Revert to Redhat pre-IPO corporate model (and stay there)

3. Restart and fill up PAID development team

4. Massive support team in response to user-support/feature-request

5. ???

6. Profit!