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Blockfi agrees to pay $100M in penalties and pursue registration

sec.gov

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Re: Blockfi agrees to pay $100M in penalties and pursue registration

#161

Post by babyshake »

almost wrote: post #150
ryanSrich wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conflating anything related to crypto as a scam is just lazy and anti-intellectual. This is one of HN's weakest traits IMO. I find great value in following topics and threads on HN, but it's unrelenting hate for crypto and crypto adjacent topics is unfounded.

Boy are we going to look stupid when a non-scam crypto use comes out! Total egg on our collective faces! One of these days! I mean obviously not today, but soon, right?

Setting aside other ways crypto can and is being used, the most interesting thing about DeFi IMO is its compositional (and decompositional) nature. This mostly results in reinventing things that already existed in Wall St and other areas of the finance world, but are now available for anyone to use.

Re: Blockfi agrees to pay $100M in penalties and pursue registration

#162

Post by ryanSrich »

xmonkee wrote: post #156
ryanSrich wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is me taking some bitcoin and purchasing something online instantly with near zero fees a scam? Please explain with precise language how that is a scam. That's a use case. Now tell me how it's a scam.

Tell me what you're buying.

My most recent PC build was created entirely from parts bought on Newegg.com. Newegg accepts bitcoin as payment. We're not in 2009 anymore where people only buy drugs with Bitcoin.

Re: Blockfi agrees to pay $100M in penalties and pursue registration

#163

Post by ryanSrich »

bluecalm wrote: post #153
ryanSrich wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is me taking some bitcoin and purchasing something online instantly with near zero fees a scam? Please explain with precise language how that is a scam. That's a use case. Now tell me how it's a scam.

Even the most blatant scams, literal pyramids called MLMs often have some useful product to muddy the waters. I mean you can after all but that toothpaste and shampoo from Amway and use it!

Yes. The PC parts on bought on Newegg.com with Bitcoin sure are contributing to a crypto scam. How could I have not seen this?

Re: Blockfi agrees to pay $100M in penalties and pursue registration

#164

Post by [deleted] »

ryanSrich wrote: post #152
Tarsul wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're right but what I find even more jarring in crypto-threads is that usually the only argument (or at least the most prolific one) from the pro-crypto side is that the argument of the anti-crypto side is off-based. But that is not an argument pro-crypto that's at most an argument that's crypto-neutral. But maybe that's enough for the pro-crypto crowd because neutrality means that the show goes on. Nevertheless, i…

Being pro-crypto is like being pro-internet or pro-money. It doesn't make sense to say that. If I use Bitcoin to buy something legally online is that a scam? Am I getting scammed? Is the other person getting scammed? I just don't understand why people ignore the fact that crypto is a utility. Sure, you can hate a company that scams users into thinking their crypto token has some intrinsic value and then rug pulls a m…

[deleted]

Re: Blockfi agrees to pay $100M in penalties and pursue registration

#165

Post by ryanSrich »

NelsonMinar wrote: post #158
ryanSrich wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conflating anything related to crypto as a scam is just lazy and anti-intellectual. This is one of HN's weakest traits IMO. I find great value in following topics and threads on HN, but it's unrelenting hate for crypto and crypto adjacent topics is unfounded.

We are literally discussing a company being found by the SEC to have sold an investment asset without appropriate disclosure and that asset being closed to American investors. This is not the example to make your case with.

Why not? I could find countless SEC violations that are far worse than this from banking institutions that I guarantee you use on a weekly or monthly basis. Are those scams?

Re: Blockfi agrees to pay $100M in penalties and pursue registration

#166

Post by sumeno »

ryanSrich wrote: post #151
almost wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boy are we going to look stupid when a non-scam crypto use comes out! Total egg on our collective faces! One of these days! I mean obviously not today, but soon, right?

How is me taking some bitcoin and purchasing something online instantly with near zero fees a scam? Please explain with precise language how that is a scam. That's a use case. Now tell me how it's a scam.

If you’re using bitcoin you aren’t purchasing anything instantly. Transaction confirmation is currently taking ~7 minutes.

Re: Blockfi agrees to pay $100M in penalties and pursue registration

#167

Post by sireat »

ryanSrich wrote: post #151
almost wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boy are we going to look stupid when a non-scam crypto use comes out! Total egg on our collective faces! One of these days! I mean obviously not today, but soon, right?

How is me taking some bitcoin and purchasing something online instantly with near zero fees a scam? Please explain with precise language how that is a scam. That's a use case. Now tell me how it's a scam.

Not much of a use case unless you want to move large amounts.

https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_f... - and current $1.76 is considered low compared to $50 per transaction craziness. So you have to go offchain

Again, I paid BTC for a laptop 9 years ago and it made sense for me then since it was mined BTC from 11 years ago.

In order to use BTC you need to obtain BTC and transaction fees kill any normal day to day use case.

This leaves BTC for less than legal uses where you do not care about fees.

So BTC itself might not qualify as a scam but as a mega enabler of scams and illegal activity.

EDIT: that $1.76 is just a on-chain fee for the network, most stores will charge you extra to use BTC since they do not care about BTC they want to cash out immediately so they use a 3rd party.

So unless you get paid in BTC you have very little reason to use BTC for payments.

Re: Blockfi agrees to pay $100M in penalties and pursue registration

#168

Post by NelsonMinar »

ryanSrich wrote: post #165
NelsonMinar wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are literally discussing a company being found by the SEC to have sold an investment asset without appropriate disclosure and that asset being closed to American investors. This is not the example to make your case with.

Why not? I could find countless SEC violations that are far worse than this from banking institutions that I guarantee you use on a weekly or monthly basis. Are those scams?

Yes, yes they often are. But I think you'll be hard-pressed to find many examples of legitimate banks having their primary customer offering being declared illegal and forced to stop operation immediately.

Re: Blockfi agrees to pay $100M in penalties and pursue registration

#169

Post by babyshake »

jonathan-adly wrote: post #72

1. This is a PR win for the SEC. It can now go to congress and say, see, we are working with Crypto companies! (while they really aren't, not in good faith anyway). 2. This is a win for Blockfi. Like other mentions, they gave their business a legal veneer for the sum for $100m. If you are of the opinion that all Cryptos and related companies are scams. Guess what? The SEC disagrees. 3. The same product (even better a…

> The same product (even better actually) is done via DeFi. That's where the real battle will be with major implications on the Ethereum ecosystem (or whatever Dapp blockchain you prefer).

The US gov could require teams based in the US to require KYC in their apps for US citizens. And they can require US citizens to only use apps with KYC. But can they really do much beyond that?

Re: Blockfi agrees to pay $100M in penalties and pursue registration

#170

Post by bduerst »

ryanSrich wrote: post #160
schmichael wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's unrelenting hate for crypto and crypto adjacent topics is unfounded. How is it unfounded? The carbon and ewaste problems are well documented. Any fixes for that (eg Proof of Stake) have either compromised Bitcoin's original focus on decentralization, continually delayed release, or both. Over a decade after Bitcoin's launch few use cases have emerged and none of them have proven durable. The ICO craze came and…

> How is it unfounded? The carbon and ewaste problems are well documented. Without a benchmark this means nothing. Just because a new technology contributes to ewaste we should just ignore it and bury it? No use in trying to fix it right? Just kill the technology because it contributes to ewaste. That doesn't make any sense. Not to mention the majority of the uproar around Crypto being a danger to the environment is…

That article you link is out of date.

Global BTC energy consumption is now double[1] what it was in July, meaning the claim that it's somehow getting better spurious. The article also acknowledges that the energy consumption criticism is a valid issue (even despite the stats being out of date).

[1] https://ccaf.io/cbeci/index

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