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Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

reuters.com

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Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#731

Post by autoexec »

Apocryphon wrote: post #707
FredPret wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since even a sourced and cited claim can be utterly bogus, it is actually worse. Because it looks authoritative at a glance when there are many citations next to a claim. But some citations are nature.com, and some are People Magazine, and they all get the same superscript number.

Then if those claims are bogus, it becomes a matter of your sources vs. their sources, and it ends up all being a matter of faith and perhaps gut feeling.

It's not just their sources vs your sources, it's about the data those sources have, where/how they got it, and how much of it you can verify.

You have to evaluate the evidence and the sources to decide which is more credible. Some things you have to take on faith, but that doesn't make it a dice roll. When it matters you can apply some critical thinking skills, and at least be able to justify the position you've settled on.

In this case I don't care enough about this Andy guy to dig into it, but I was able to determine that I couldn't justify forming an opinion about his credibility using what Wikipedia was presenting to me. If I wanted to get into the woods, I'm sure I could end up with an informed opinion based on more than a gut feeling.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#732

Post by RIMR »

ctoth wrote: post #626
RIMR wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm just trying to understand here, you're advocating that people lose their livelihoods for donating to a protest movement you don't approve of? Not participating in illegal action, not physically hurting anyone, just giving money to the wrong people online? Can you possibly think of any circumstances where this sort of principle might backfire?

Shutting down roadways into and out of cities is a little bit more than just a disagreement. These people are criminals.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#734

Post by _-david-_ »

pessimizer wrote: post #628
j_walter wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A city is being held hostage by an extreme minority and, even in OPs post they mention that the Toronto police handled it properly, but question the admonition levied against the Ottawa police. >The Ottawa police are complicit in this now as well as city council. They sat on their hands while allowing this to spiral out of control, and now want to play the victim or blame others (e.g. blaming counter protesters toda…

A major difference is that the police would issue dispersal orders, then attack the BLM protesters indiscriminately, or call curfews which basically declared open season on any kind of protester, journalist, civilian, doing anything outdoors after X o'clock. The police were shooting rubber bullets at people sitting on their own porches. This is not how Ottawa is being handled, this is not how January 6th was handled,…

>this is not how January 6th was handled

January 6th police had real bullets and shot and killed a person. You could argue Jan 6th was handled more strictly than BLM.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#735

Post by JackFr »

Cd00d wrote: post #714
dade_ wrote: post #399

It appears this was the result of terrible security at GiveSendGo. I'd agree it could be state sponsored, but I am certain there are enough people with the skills to do this on their own downtown Ottawa (even if it turned out they work for the gov't). That said, I am thoroughly disappointed the Federal gov't and much of the media coverage. They have done nothing but make the situation worse. I think it is intentional…

> "drop mandates" That little throw away at the end, where we just give in to people making demands outside of democratic methods says it all, I think.

That protests are 'outside of democratic methods' says quite a bit itself.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#736

Post by ctoth »

FireBeyond wrote: post #712
ctoth wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay but the thing about torture is, in order to be torture you must be prevented from leaving the situation. Are they literally trapping people in their homes? No. You just really really don't like them and so are trying to delegitimize their protest with use of loaded language. Torture means things like having your skin pealed off or your fingernails removed. Torture means things like being imprisoned and repeatedl…

Oh, it's fine, because everyone can afford to go to a hotel for a few weeks, then, right?

Me pointing out that this is not torture, that torture means specific things and that this doesn't meet the commonly-accepted definition of torture, followed by you glibly inserting the phrase "its fine" is a perfect microcosm of why online discussion is doomed. Torture means you are in pain and you cannot stop it. Not by getting on the bus and riding across town, not by wearing earmuffs, it means that you, the person being tortured, cannot stop the torture. This is clearly not the case when there is noise outside your house that you dislike. Words have meanings, let's please stick to using them.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#737

Post by [deleted] »

BeefWellington wrote: post #458
ctoth wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While there is no outright violence, there is torture to local residents Why did you use the word torture here? Torture is a well-defined word with an accepted meaning. Do you feel that it is appropriate? Or are you looking for an emotionally-loaded reaction? Can I also claim that my loud college neighbors are torturing me when they stay up too late on the weekend? Of course I can, but it sure is disingenuous to an…

> Can I also claim that my loud college neighbors are torturing me when they stay up too late on the weekend? Of course I can, but it sure is disingenuous to anyone who has actually been tortured. If they did it for a week straight after you'd lodged several noise complaints and had the police go nowhere, yeah, I think that would qualify. It's certainly not the most severe type of torture but intentionally depriving…

[deleted]

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#738

Post by coolso »

ar_turnbull wrote: post #570
dade_ wrote: post #399

It appears this was the result of terrible security at GiveSendGo. I'd agree it could be state sponsored, but I am certain there are enough people with the skills to do this on their own downtown Ottawa (even if it turned out they work for the gov't). That said, I am thoroughly disappointed the Federal gov't and much of the media coverage. They have done nothing but make the situation worse. I think it is intentional…

> "there is no violence, and no obvious danger." This is false and I would expect better of HN posters. A group of the protestors locked the doors to a downtown apartment building with handcuffs and then attempted to set that building on fire. Although nobody has been injured yet, there have been plenty of weapons seizures as well as incidents of protestors ramming police vehicles and/or attempting to arrest police o…

> Residents of Ottawa are scared to leave their homes for simple tasks

Kind of like almost everyone in the US and Canada for a period of almost a year thanks to governmental policies?

Another way to look at things is these protests will indirectly help flatten the curve, especially if they go on for two more weeks.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#739

Post by talentedcoin »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #662
talentedcoin wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also from my link: "Overnight, demonstrators exhibited extremely disruptive and unlawful behaviour, which presented risks to public safety and unacceptable distress for Ottawa residents," said police. Go ahead, keep digging. I can do this all day.

Oof. That's how the police characterized "illegal fireworks, loud music and horn honking". In fairness to you, your quote from the police was at the tippy top of your article and mine was multiple paragraphs later.

Well, if I'm being charitable, that's exactly the question mark here.

There are reports of intimidation and other bad behaviour, but there are also a whole bunch of other people just enjoying the party atmosphere. I think both narratives can be true. To be clear, some of the honking has been going on 18+ hours a day, which is bad, but there are suggestions of worse things under the surface. This happened a couple weeks ago, for instance:

https://globalnews.ca/news/8581568/ottawa-shepherds-of-good-...

My probably subjective impression is that wandering around this protest is a bit of a choose-your-own-adventure. There's friendly folks, but there are troublemakers around too, and unfortunately the troublemakers seem to be more senior in the planning process ...

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#740

Post by endemic »

tablespoon wrote: post #640
purephase wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're honking for 16-18 hours per day. For people that live near the convoy, they've been able to sleep for over two weeks due to this. I have friends and family affected by this. I'm fairly sure this constitutes torture if you don't have the resources to up and leave your residence for days at a time in order to sleep.

> They're honking for 16-18 hours per day. For people that live near the convoy, they've been able to sleep for over two weeks due to this. I have friends and family affected by this. I'm fairly sure this constitutes torture if you don't have the resources to up and leave your residence for days at a time in order to sleep. Are earplugs not a thing in Canada? Calling honking torture is ridiculous hyperbole. That word…

Earplugs just deaden sound, they don't eliminate it.
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