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Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#391

Post by Dylan16807 »

WJW wrote: post #364
makx wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think that there are even qualified people who would do it for (almost) free, just for the chance of building a resume...

There's a weird type of logic going on where almost everyone who would be willing to do it for almost free is probably not qualified for the job. Would you really stake the future of your foundation on someone who still needs to build their resume?

I don't believe that for a second. Unless you just mean it in the sense of "90% of people that apply to a job aren't good at it". You can get many many qualified people for $250k.

Paying more doesn't get rid of the risk, so yes do the version that has risk but without the bonfire of cash.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#392

Post by mitchdoogle »

WJW wrote: post #364
makx wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think that there are even qualified people who would do it for (almost) free, just for the chance of building a resume...

There's a weird type of logic going on where almost everyone who would be willing to do it for almost free is probably not qualified for the job. Would you really stake the future of your foundation on someone who still needs to build their resume?

$2.5 million per year is in the top 0.1% of income in the United States. No matter how you shake it, whether you want people with management experience, tech experience, browser experience, or some combination thereof, you will find a significantly large number who would be able to do the job, do it well, and make more than their current salary.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#393

Post by jacquesm »

twblalock wrote: post #387
autoexec wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> High salary and a golden parachute would be required to attract anyone good enough to succeed. I'm not sure if the best way to get someone to save a dying product is a golden parachute which rewards them for running it straight into the ground. You have to make sure they're not risking everything to keep Firefox going, but ideally they'd have some skin in the game so they don't have an incentive to just loot whatev…

It's not a reward for failure, it's an insurance policy. Here's a CEO job offer: take on a nearly impossible task, for a salary that is far below the market rate. If you fail (and you probably will!) it might damage your career and make it harder for you to find another job. If you succeed, you will get prestige, but you still won't get a lot of money. What kind of executive would accept an offer like that? A golden…

You don't want that kind of executive anyway. You want someone that identifies with the market and is seen as a safe hand to run FF into the long term future. That alone will do a good part of stopping the drain.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#394

Post by javitury »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #2

They should focus on saving Firefox. - Cut out all (or at the very least, most) initiatives that don't serve the goal of promoting Firefox's market share or sustainability going forward - Donate the major money drains that aren't Firefox to the Apache Foundation or another worthy custodian - Fire all inessential staff that don't want to work on Firefox. - Get a CEO/upper management that are in it for the passion, not…

What do you think of Mozilla Developer Network (MDN) or Rust? Do you think they were a mistake?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#396

Post by autoexec »

paxys wrote: post #154
selfhoster11 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The subtitle of the question was "What would you do if you were in charge of Mozilla? How would you save Firefox?" My answer is an attempt at addressing these two questions. My goal wasn't to make Mozilla more profitable, but to ensure that it's focused on what should be its core mission, rather than the mire of sideshows that they engage in at the moment. Also, I don't care how Mozilla the amorphous blob of a corpor…

As a regular end user why do I care about what Mozilla's mission is? Apple makes shiny devices, Google gives me great free services, and in return I use their (perfectly great) browsers. What is one single reason to use Firefox? As long as these large companies continue to put effort into their browsers (which Microsoft didn't do with IE), users are simply never going to switch, the same way no one is using desktop L…

> What is one single reason to use Firefox?

Security, privacy, and customization are why I use it. It takes a lot of work to do it, but you can lock down firefox very effectively and you have more freedom to decide what your browser is and isn't allowed to do with firefox than anyone else.

In the end, what we're missing in browsers is a browser that works for you instead of exploiting you to make money. Out of the box, firefox doesn't hit that mark today, but at least it can be beaten into submission. No other browser gives users that kind of control.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#397

Post by xemdetia »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #307
vimy wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does everyone always forget about Safari in these discussions? Safari has a respectable marketshare on mobile / tablets. Not as good on desktop but it’s not a lost cause.

It's not a relevant browser. The last time I have seen Safari installed on a Windows machine was likely 2013-14, if not earlier. It doesn't have an Android version (which makes it less relevant on smartphones). It doesn't support Linux, which lots of the power user/tech trailblazer crowd is using. It's not open source, unlike Firefox or Chromium. It lags in features (which to be fair, isn't bad when they impact priva…

I think the other thing that makes it less relevant is that Safari is using WebKit and at this point its just a WebKit derivative. Part of the value that Firefox provides for better or worse is alternate components that force things to actually try and meet standards.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#398

Post by appleiigs »

twblalock wrote: post #352
pstuart wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? This isn't GM -- it's a web browser. An important one, but even a paltry $1M should be enough to draw in the right talent.

$1m is senior engineering manager compensation in the valley at several companies just a short drive away from Mozilla’s offices. It’s far below CEO compensation. Anyone who is capable of succeeding as the CEO of Mozilla would be giving up millions of dollars they could easily make elsewhere in the valley if they took only $1m as their comp.

No, it's not binary as you make it out be.

There is a wide spectrum of CEOs skills and compensation. A SVP, VP, or even director level person at Apple (and the like) could be CEO of Mozilla (and would be happy to take a CEO title and steer their own ship).

I'd bet there are couple internal people at Mozilla that could be promoted to CEO and be happy with CEO pay and be successful too.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#399

Post by mitchdoogle »

sirwhinesalot wrote: post #368
jonassalen wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a professional that gets offers like this ("it will be good for your portfolio") I hate this comment. If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

Apparently you get monkeys if you pay millions too...

Well it's the market rate, right?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#400

Post by fxtentacle »

sebmellen wrote: post #267
Jayakumark wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current CEO is a cancer to Mozilla, her main goal seems like to make more money personally before Mozilla goes bankrupt. As long is as she is there - there is no hope https://itdm.com/mozilla-firefox-usage-down-85-but-why-are-e...

The arrogance is hard to believe. > In 2018 she received a total of $2,458,350 in compensation from Mozilla, which represents a 400% payrise since 2008. On the same period, Firefox marketshare was down 85%. When asked about her salary she stated "I learned that my pay was about an 80% discount to market. Meaning that competitive roles elsewhere were paying about 5 times as much. That's too big a discount to ask peopl…

It might be that they need to pay that amount to attract top CEO talent. But then again, I'm not sure if Mozilla should be large enough to need a top CEO. I mean effectively reducing it to just the Firefox team would be fine with me. And then it's maybe 80 people to manage in total. So that's one regular office building and you're done. It doesn't sound like the CEO will be critical for anything in this company.
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