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Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#341

Post by yucky »

vimy wrote: post #234
selfhoster11 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Firefox dies, the open web dies. It's that simple. For the open web to remain open, there needs to be at least one more truly independent source of authority regarding how a rendering engine should work. Everyone else has thrown in the towel and abdicated that authority to Google by embedding Blink. Google is either actively malicious to the open web, or doesn't care about it other than as something they can strip…

Why does everyone always forget about Safari in these discussions? Safari has a respectable marketshare on mobile / tablets. Not as good on desktop but it’s not a lost cause.

I've never seen Safari on an Android or Windows device. I would imagine this is on the list of things that is technically possible, but not a real world use case.

So that's why.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#342

Post by makx »

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #304
sebmellen wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The arrogance is hard to believe. > In 2018 she received a total of $2,458,350 in compensation from Mozilla, which represents a 400% payrise since 2008. On the same period, Firefox marketshare was down 85%. When asked about her salary she stated "I learned that my pay was about an 80% discount to market. Meaning that competitive roles elsewhere were paying about 5 times as much. That's too big a discount to ask peopl…

Fuck, I'll do it for a mere million dollars. The market has spoken. I can't do much worse than losing 85% market share.

You'd think that there are even qualified people who would do it for (almost) free, just for the chance of building a resume...

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#343

Post by mgkimsal »

dralley wrote: post #247
mgkimsal wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

market to multiple verticals. schools, local/regional/state governments, non-profits - types of orgs that have some long-term interest in privacy.

>schools The same schools that went all in with Chromebooks?

No. Different ones. I'd probably also look at non K-12 schools.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#344

Post by twblalock »

Browsers aren’t a product anymore. Browsers are a feature and a commodity. Every platform is expected to have one out of the box.

Most people use the default browsers on their mobile devices and I’d bet many of the people who don’t use the default browser on their PCs have downloaded Chrome because it can sync bookmarks with Chrome on their phones.

Using the non-default browser takes effort and most people don’t care enough to try. For Firefox to overcome that basic barrier, it needs to be a lot more attractive than the default browser. For most users, it’s just not.

Other companies that only make browsers don’t have high market share for the same reason Firefox doesn’t.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#345

Post by nus07 »

twblalock wrote: post #323
Jayakumark wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current CEO is a cancer to Mozilla, her main goal seems like to make more money personally before Mozilla goes bankrupt. As long is as she is there - there is no hope https://itdm.com/mozilla-firefox-usage-down-85-but-why-are-e...

A better CEO would not be cheaper, particularly considering that whoever takes the job would be tasked with saving a dying product. High salary and a golden parachute would be required to attract anyone good enough to succeed.

Someone visionary and humble like Sundar or Satya might work. Preferably an engineer or engineer-minded rather than a lawyer or MBA.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#346

Post by samwillis »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #2

They should focus on saving Firefox. - Cut out all (or at the very least, most) initiatives that don't serve the goal of promoting Firefox's market share or sustainability going forward - Donate the major money drains that aren't Firefox to the Apache Foundation or another worthy custodian - Fire all inessential staff that don't want to work on Firefox. - Get a CEO/upper management that are in it for the passion, not…

Agree with this.

I feel they should start trying to out “out innovate” the other browser developers. Stop playing politics, which Google will always win, and just start making new “cool shit” that developers want to use! Hire the best innovative thinkers in the industry and set them free to invent browser apis for developers to use.

Also, they should be attacking things like electron, and “hybrid” mobile app development. Build a toolkit based on Gecko for cross platform development that addresses the problems with electron.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#347

Post by selfhoster11 »

marcosdumay wrote: post #262
selfhoster11 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but at this point it doesn't feel to me that the community has that much to lose. If we're truly sub-5% like Statcounter says, then as long as we minimally muzzle this particular paperclip maximiser (say, the browser engine must remain Gecko or an in-house project and cannot be Blink, user privacy must be no worse than currently, selling data or "partnering with" third parties is disallowed) and let it run for…

> If we're truly sub-5% like Statcounter says You know, that's the real question we should make before going on this entire exercise. Are the usage statistics any reliable? Firefox is the one browser that blocks the things those sites use to measure market share. Why would we expect their results to be real?

I think they are closer to the truth than not.

Despite my constant advocacy for Firefox for over a decade, a family member whom I respect greatly told me directly and in no uncertain terms that they do not wish to use Firefox and wish to switch to Chrome instead because of numerous issues they have observed. And the worst part is that as much as I wanted it to, Firefox wasn't up to it. I cannot help but think that this is a microcosm of what's happening more broadly.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#348

Post by BossingAround »

paulcole wrote: post #124
phkahler wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> We as a community, cannot afford to let Firefox languish until the only browsers in the world are Chromium derivatives. The diversity of truly independent browser engines is far too important to give up without a fight. There are a lot of people oh HN who agree with that but then use a different browser for whatever reason. I feel like these people are being very hypocritical and should use what they want to succe…

> Firefox is very usable Are you intentionally underselling it or is this what I can expect of Firefox? Because it's not a super awe-inspiring endorsement.

I don't understand what you need. Go and try Firefox. As a person that uses Firefox as a daily driver, both at work and at home usage, I can't recall when I had to switch to Chrome. In 2010, maybe. I don't know what other "awe-inspiring endorsement" you need.

Firefox did not save my marriage nor did it make me a million dollars, no.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#349

Post by pohl »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #2

They should focus on saving Firefox. - Cut out all (or at the very least, most) initiatives that don't serve the goal of promoting Firefox's market share or sustainability going forward - Donate the major money drains that aren't Firefox to the Apache Foundation or another worthy custodian - Fire all inessential staff that don't want to work on Firefox. - Get a CEO/upper management that are in it for the passion, not…

They should also consider more "Oxidation" of Firefox components, if only because it lowers the bar for mere mortals to make open source contributions.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#350

Post by selfhoster11 »

Permit wrote: post #227
selfhoster11 wrote: post #2

They should focus on saving Firefox. - Cut out all (or at the very least, most) initiatives that don't serve the goal of promoting Firefox's market share or sustainability going forward - Donate the major money drains that aren't Firefox to the Apache Foundation or another worthy custodian - Fire all inessential staff that don't want to work on Firefox. - Get a CEO/upper management that are in it for the passion, not…

> - Get a CEO/upper management that are in it for the passion Why stop there? Why not get developers who are "in it for the passion"?

A CEO can single-handedly sink the ship (witness Nokia's death). Developers don't have the power to do that.
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