Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack • Hacker News Board

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#561

Post by sudosysgen » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 8:21 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #544

manquer wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sleep deprivation and continuous noise is considered torture under Geneva Convention and by the U.N.[1] and Canadian law[2]. U.S. and others have been condemned heavily for using such techniques and U.S. has since stopped (at least officially) even in black ops places like Gitmo. Protests and blockade are one thing, continuous noise in areas where people live and work is not peaceful . [1] https://tbinternet.ohchr.or…

Quoted post unavailable.

If your noisy neighbor was setting of a blowhorn with a high duty cycle for multiple days with the express intent to cause harm to you, it would probably be fair to call that some form of assault.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#562

Post by RIMR » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 8:22 PM UTC

cudgy wrote: post #382

peter422 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is somebody physically blocking a bridge with a giant truck and refusing to move it less militant than somebody pulling their music off Spotify and writing a letter explaining their choice? Why did you use the term “militant” to describe the side that is not using military tactics.

Blocking bridges with trucks and no guns is a military tactic? I believe that is an example of civil disobedience. Words matter.

Shutting down routes in and out of a city for such a selfish, delusional cause is well beyond what any rational person would call "civil disobedience". There is no basis for allowing the intentional permanent disruption of public resources and services to fight for a cause. You can't just filibuster society by sabotaging infrastructure like this.

With self-driving tech being a present reality, these truckers are just giving everyone a reason to automate them out of their jobs. A robot can't throw a tantrum, join a gang, and terrorize your city.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#563

Post by 99_00 » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 8:23 PM UTC

dade_ wrote: post #399

It appears this was the result of terrible security at GiveSendGo. I'd agree it could be state sponsored, but I am certain there are enough people with the skills to do this on their own downtown Ottawa (even if it turned out they work for the gov't). That said, I am thoroughly disappointed the Federal gov't and much of the media coverage. They have done nothing but make the situation worse. I think it is intentional…

Also the Ambassador Bridge blockade was ordered by the court to clear on Friday midnight. Police cleared it Sunday with some arrests, some resistance but not much else.

Pretty standard when it comes to Canadian protests.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#564

Post by sudosysgen » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 8:23 PM UTC

tagoregrtst wrote: post #221

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #154

I didn't join in on the BLM protests because I'm neither American nor arrogant enough to tell Americans how they want to run their society. Ban foreign money entering your political system. Nothing good will ever come from it.

How about Canadians living in America who are de facto barred from entering their country to visit relatives?

I've had relatives come into the country from different countries many times, with no issues. They had to quarantine, one of them with us, but they were never denied entry, and even that is getting dropped progressively.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#565

Post by kstenerud » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 8:23 PM UTC

logifail wrote: post #521

kstenerud wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> The fact that Canadian hospitals haven't been overrun is testament to how well the situation is being handled. But one must remain vigilant. Even Germany had problems with their hospitals despite their best efforts. Q1: Were Swedish hospitals overrun? Q2: If not, why not?

> Q1: Were Swedish hospitals overrun?

Yes, they were. And they're still under strain.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#566

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 8:24 PM UTC

cf100clunk wrote: post #519

CryptoBanker wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of the situations you described can be accurate simultaneously. There are two levels of civil government. The military can override the civil functions of the lower level (the states) while still taking orders from the upper level (the federal government)

Please apply what you've just said directly to contemporary Canadian governance and polity.

[deleted]

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#567

Post by FredPret » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 8:24 PM UTC

oo0shiny wrote: post #487

j_walter wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A city is being held hostage by an extreme minority and, even in OPs post they mention that the Toronto police handled it properly, but question the admonition levied against the Ottawa police. >The Ottawa police are complicit in this now as well as city council. They sat on their hands while allowing this to spiral out of control, and now want to play the victim or blame others (e.g. blaming counter protesters toda…

Andy Ngo isn't exactly a reliable source. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Ngo#Credibility

But I'm sure his Wikipedia page is

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#568

Post by 99_00 » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 8:24 PM UTC

eldaisfish wrote: post #420

dade_ wrote: post #399

It appears this was the result of terrible security at GiveSendGo. I'd agree it could be state sponsored, but I am certain there are enough people with the skills to do this on their own downtown Ottawa (even if it turned out they work for the gov't). That said, I am thoroughly disappointed the Federal gov't and much of the media coverage. They have done nothing but make the situation worse. I think it is intentional…

>there is no violence, and no obvious danger While there is no outright violence, there is torture to local residents, there was attempted arson, there is continued intimidation and harassment of those wearing masks, there is intimidation of visible minorities, there are attacks on businesses.... Is that enough to convince you that the situation is out of hand and than stricter action is needed? The protestors haven'…

Looking at the live streams, I see visible minorities going to the protests and supporting the truckers and the atmosphere seems festive and celebratory more than anything else.

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#569

Post by arcticbull » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 8:24 PM UTC

cf100clunk wrote: post #519

CryptoBanker wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of the situations you described can be accurate simultaneously. There are two levels of civil government. The military can override the civil functions of the lower level (the states) while still taking orders from the upper level (the federal government)

Please apply what you've just said directly to contemporary Canadian governance and polity.

In ordinary functioning of government and civil society there's an effective separation of the army and the police in law enforcement. In the US, this is governed by the posse comitatus act. Canada doesn't really have an analogue, the government can request the assistance of the army when lower levels of government are unable to perform their duties sufficiently to maintain order.

The use of the emergencies act makes it clear that this is one of those situations and allows the government to utilize the military to support lower levels of law enforcement.

This is not martial law. This is not a coup. This is not unprecedented - after all Pierre Trudeau used the War Measures Act (predecessor to the Emergencies Act) to restore order in the October Crisis.

This is more like a state calling in the national guard.

The answer to lower levels of government not being able to maintain order isn't to roll over. It's to bring in more help. That's what's being done here. And it's governed by the Charter. Much more stringently than the War Measures Act ever was.

[edit] We cannot allow a small, loud, group of individuals to overturn the democratic will of the people as decided in the last election. This is un-democratic, unfair, and must end immediately. We can talk about ending restrictions in the open, but not with a boot on our throats. This occupation must end before we decide on what to do next. I remind you of the interview Pierre Trudeau gave re: the October Crisis.

  Pierre Trudeau: Yeah, well there's a lot of bleeding hearts around who just don't like to see people with helmets and guns. All I can say is, go on and bleed, but it's more important to keep law and order in this society than to be worried about weak-kneed people who don't like the looks of a soldier's helmet. [1]

I highly recommend listening to the longer speech [2]. Far more interesting than any speech given by Justin, IMO. Obviously a different situation, but with similar roots: wanting to overthrow a democratically elected government because they don't like the lawful, legal, constitutional decisions.

They can have their say in peaceful protest, in court or at the next election - and not before.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeTsQQ22Uwc

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHaoBD-eakk

Re: Names of Canada truck convoy donors leaked after reported hack

#570

Post by ar_turnbull » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 8:24 PM UTC

dade_ wrote: post #399

It appears this was the result of terrible security at GiveSendGo. I'd agree it could be state sponsored, but I am certain there are enough people with the skills to do this on their own downtown Ottawa (even if it turned out they work for the gov't). That said, I am thoroughly disappointed the Federal gov't and much of the media coverage. They have done nothing but make the situation worse. I think it is intentional…

> "there is no violence, and no obvious danger."

This is false and I would expect better of HN posters.

A group of the protestors locked the doors to a downtown apartment building with handcuffs and then attempted to set that building on fire.

Although nobody has been injured yet, there have been plenty of weapons seizures as well as incidents of protestors ramming police vehicles and/or attempting to arrest police officers.

Residents of Ottawa are scared to leave their homes for simple tasks like buying groceries because the protestors have assaulted vulnerable individuals for wearing masks.

The entire thing is a tinderbox just waiting for one unhinged protestor to make a wrong move. And even if we escape this incident peacefully, there are the toxic diesel fumes from idling trucks which have been polluting downtown Ottawa's air for the last two weeks and are likely to become trapped in the urban environment.