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Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#41

Post by duped »

I think they could transition to being a developer tools company with a focus on building enterprise web applications with the goal of making the "default" web development process correspond to their mission statement.

I think that Chrome and IE proved that the most important users are developers and business admins. If Mozilla wants to make the web a place for real human users in line with their ideals, then they need to focus on making their vision the default for developers and businesses.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#42

Post by BlackLotus89 »

silicon2401 wrote: post #29

Firefox makes poor decisions. I've been trying to use firefox for years and just gave up this past weekend. As far as I know, there's no way to customize your firefox home view on android so that you have a permanent, customizable set of links, and nothing else. You can have "recent bookmarks" which disappear eventually, presumably once they're no longer "recent". Can you imagine being the one to approve such a bone-…

* Go into the settings, customize, home

* Disable everything.

* Visit an important page

* Menu -> add to top sites

Voila

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#43

Post by ZeroGravitas »

nikanj wrote: post #13

Every time I restart Firefox, I get about 8 different prompts for "See what's new!" "Reset your Firefox profile now!" "See our new diversity initiative now!" etc. It feels like opening a Windows Me installation from 2000. I just want to get browsing done.

I believe the reset thing is due to it being a good way to solve user problems that have accumulated over time.

It seemed a bigger thing a few years ago, but if you keep seeing it, then they've probably identified you as someone likely to benfit from it. I don't think I've seen it for years.

This is just speculation though.

I just get an update "what's new" tab after every update, which seems reasonable if you are adding or removing things.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#44

Post by staticassertion »

chomp wrote: post #27
sorry_outta_gas wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think most users care about that, the Google tie seems like a weak point considering most users choose chrome

Users absolutely don't care where their browser gets paid, but financially, Mozilla Corp is dependent on an external entity's good graces to pay them. Mozilla Corp makes 400 million per year from Google money. If this money dries up in 2023, then the browser has to find a new deal, or close shop (figuratively speaking; I'm sure it'd lumber on since it's an open source browser). This is a fair amount of business risk,…

Or they could cut costs now and start saving. 400m a year is such a fucking massive amount of money. You can hire thousands of engineers with that.

But like 10% of that goes to execs every year or something insane like that.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#45

Post by Shared404 »

jms703 wrote: post #10
selfhoster11 wrote: post #2

They should focus on saving Firefox. - Cut out all (or at the very least, most) initiatives that don't serve the goal of promoting Firefox's market share or sustainability going forward - Donate the major money drains that aren't Firefox to the Apache Foundation or another worthy custodian - Fire all inessential staff that don't want to work on Firefox. - Get a CEO/upper management that are in it for the passion, not…

This. However, I think they need to answer the question, why should Firefox exist? If there is no compelling reason, well, there you go. If there is, double down on that make that reason shine. They have wasted so much money on the wrong things, IMO.

>they need to answer the question, why should Firefox exist? If there is no compelling reason, well, there you go. If there is, double down on that make that reason shine.

Unfortunately, that reason (browser engine diversity)is compelling to people who understand the situation, but not general consumers - and it's impossible to make general consumers care, unless maybe Firefox went for an edgy "rebel against the man" vibe.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#46

Post by ozten »

#1 reason: Google has been spending millions of dollars on ads. 2010 many subway, buses, and TVs had ads about how fast Chrome was. Advertising works! Early adopters switched, followed by mainstream users.

Additional Key Strategies:

Google focused on developer experience with its tools.

Google shipped a good enough extension system.

Google invested in matching or beating a few key features but kept Chrome a leaner project overall. Worse is better and 80/20 rule.

Ecosystem evolution:

Google successfully got every major browser vendor to move to their rendering engine, except for Firefox. Gecko has always been harder to embed.

Slowly over time, some web devs stopped testing their work on Firefox since they were using Chrome and most browsers "just worked" like Chrome. Every week I hit a site that I have to use in Chrome because of a bug I'm seeing in Firefox.

Mozilla went all-in on trying to disrupt itself with a mobile phone operating system, which didn't work out.

Mozilla dabbles in many strategies (Privacy, Games, Advertising, WebXR), but none have been successful in growing active daily users.

Some people say Mozilla should focus on executing Firefox, but I think Mozilla is smart for trying to re-invent itself because the browser is a commodity, and if Google wants to own that on-ramp to the internet, it will.

Netscape and Firefox 1.0 were massive products. Mozilla needs a 3rd act to return to a significant marketshare.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#47

Post by alangibson »

This had been answered well by others, so I'll pose an even better question: "why do we need Firefox?"

To answer my own question: without at least one competing browser, all web standards are effectively controlled by Google. It'll be AMP from here on out.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#48

Post by madjam002 »

pasc1878 wrote: post #36
nikanj wrote: post #13

Every time I restart Firefox, I get about 8 different prompts for "See what's new!" "Reset your Firefox profile now!" "See our new diversity initiative now!" etc. It feels like opening a Windows Me installation from 2000. I just want to get browsing done.

I get none of that - you musty have some odd config.

I get the same thing and I reset my config to defaults.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#49

Post by ssorallen »

nicoburns wrote: post #14

I would: - Prioritise getting the new extension framework fully functional. And continue innovating on the capabilities that are exposed. Especially on mobile where the new fenix engine is still limited to a small whitelist of extensions - Sort out the multi-profile story. Container tabs are great, but the chrome model is also a great fit for many workflow (e.g. different people in a house or home vs. work profiles).…

Chrome’s Profiles are the #1 reason I use it over Firefox. If Firefox had as complete of an implementation as Chrome then I would consider switching, but until then Firefox is a non-starter for me.

I use all 3 of these profiles all day every day for work:

* one personal profile logged into personal Google

* one work profile managed by the company, logged into company Google

* one development profile with all the debugging extensions installed, like React and Redux tools (they require access to all pages all the time)

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#50

Post by temp0826 »

nikanj wrote: post #13

Every time I restart Firefox, I get about 8 different prompts for "See what's new!" "Reset your Firefox profile now!" "See our new diversity initiative now!" etc. It feels like opening a Windows Me installation from 2000. I just want to get browsing done.

That's...not the case (and never has been) for me. You only restart it when you get an update (in which case that wouldn't be very often)? Or you did something whacky in about:config? Or maybe a bad extension. Dunno, not normal
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