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Ask HN: Recent computer hacking convictions and employability?

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Re: Ask HN: Recent computer hacking convictions and employability?

#101

Post by tcgv »

btilly wrote: post #99
tcgv wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point, and I'm in favor of inclusion in the workplace, but it's not all black and white. Would you allow a convicted sexual offender who did his time in jail take care of your child in a day care facility to which he got employed and didn't disclose his past conviction? Things need to be put into perspective, and evaluated carefully. With that said I don't think immediate termination was the right decision…

Are you aware that an estimated 1/4 of all registered sex offenders were themselves minors when they committed their offense? And age 14 is the single year that you're most likely to become a registered sex offender? I fully understand and appreciate the purpose of our laws. The practice, however, is a different story. And unless we stop including as crimes things that I'm not willing to consider crimes, I can't supp…

I wasn't aware of that, it's suprising and sad. Thanks for pointing that out.

Re: Ask HN: Recent computer hacking convictions and employability?

#102

Post by nraynaud »

webmaven wrote: post #89
nraynaud wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never been asked this question for employment. In my country being forbidden to work in some area is an extra sentence that the judge would impose (it's mostly around being forbidden to manage a company, being elected, or using weapons) and would be checked by the probation officer, not the employer.

It isn't a matter of being forbidden to work in an industry, but rather that some companies may be forbidden to employ you (and even then, the restrictions may only be for certain roles). Let's ignore the computer/security aspects of this particular situation, and come up with other examples. If you are convicted of a financial crime, for example, you are not barred from working as an accountant. You can even get a l…

We have a famous example here of someone who is forever forbidden to work around financial markets, that include the IT systems and network equipment.

But I don't think companies here are ever barred to go further than the law. If employees have to be vetted, there is a department in the Ministry of Interior that does just that, they say yes or no without any detail as to why (and there is an appeal process that still doesn't involve the employer).

But here if you cook the books as a CPA, you will probably be barred from the job for at least a few years.

Re: Ask HN: Recent computer hacking convictions and employability?

#103

Post by jedberg »

thekiptxt wrote: post #15
3pt14159 wrote: post #6

Apply for everything. Let other people say no for you. If people find out about your past be 100% straight with them, but you don't need to be the one to bring it up. Work your hardest to provide value, ask for feedback and correct where necessary. You'll be fine. There's a lot of work in cybersecurity these days. Also, you should list the country you're in. Who knows, someone on HN could reach out with an opportunit…

> Let other people say no for you. Wow. Upvoting because this is such a succinct and powerful way to say this, and I’ve never heard it before. i. e. It’s not our job, domain, or in our interest to reject ourselves from a job we’re interested in before applying

Yes! I recently told this to a friend of mine. She kept saying "I won't apply for that job because I'm sure there are more qualified people applying" and I kept telling her "let them reject you, don't reject yourself".

Finding a job and finding a romantic partner turn out to be really similar processes -- it's a numbers game and you can't sit around waiting for the perfect opportunity.

Re: Ask HN: Recent computer hacking convictions and employability?

#104

Post by btilly »

tcgv wrote: post #101
btilly wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware that an estimated 1/4 of all registered sex offenders were themselves minors when they committed their offense? And age 14 is the single year that you're most likely to become a registered sex offender? I fully understand and appreciate the purpose of our laws. The practice, however, is a different story. And unless we stop including as crimes things that I'm not willing to consider crimes, I can't supp…

I wasn't aware of that, it's suprising and sad. Thanks for pointing that out.

It is not so surprising when you consider how many laws have fixed age limits. For example a 13 year old sends an intimate picture to a 14 year old friend, the 14 year old has just committed a crime by having that picture.

The law is intended to target adult pedophiles. But when the people involved are basically the same age, it isn't pedophilia!

Re: Ask HN: Recent computer hacking convictions and employability?

#106

Post by notch656a »

btilly wrote: post #104
tcgv wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't aware of that, it's suprising and sad. Thanks for pointing that out.

It is not so surprising when you consider how many laws have fixed age limits. For example a 13 year old sends an intimate picture to a 14 year old friend, the 14 year old has just committed a crime by having that picture. The law is intended to target adult pedophiles. But when the people involved are basically the same age, it isn't pedophilia!

Yeah not to mention no mens rea is needed for statutory rape. That is a 17 y/o could show you a passport and DL with her age as 18, and tell you and look like she is 18, yet you would still be convicted. Hardly any other crime has this kind of strict liability where honest and thorough due diligence doesn't absolve you of the crime.

Re: Ask HN: Recent computer hacking convictions and employability?

#107

Post by Terry_Roll »

FastEatSlow wrote: post #50
opheliate wrote: post #26

> Serious Organised Crime Unit Are you based in the UK? That's probably relevant, it seems like a lot of the cybersecurity sector over here is very friendly with NCSC & SC is required for a lot of roles.

Yeah I've noticed it as well. I suppose it's because the GCHQ can't necessarily pay enough for very talented individuals who are required for certain work, whereas defence companies are somewhat poured with funds. I've heard that a popular path is to start in the government, then to the private sector to earn bank, and then back to public.

I phoned GCHQ.

Re: Ask HN: Recent computer hacking convictions and employability?

#108

Post by Terry_Roll »

dk79XuL9 wrote: post #97
Terry_Roll wrote: post #95

What was your motive?

My first offence occurred when I was 13 years old. I'd chalk it up to inexperience and a lack of ability to anticipate the consequences of my actions. I was really self-absorbed. I'm not the same person I was back then. It has almost been a decade.

Things are more joined up than you realise here in the UK. You know it was me who phoned GCHQ?

Re: Ask HN: Recent computer hacking convictions and employability?

#109

Post by jnwatson »

bink wrote: post #66
inglor wrote: post #8

A bunch of friends just look for and then sell vulnerabilities (the good ones to bug boundary programs the less ethical ones to governments or companies). The price of a zero day exploit is quite high (for both sides) and I have friends who make much more money than I do doing this. That said they mostly work alone or in small groups in their basement rather than at a large security company. I would hire (or at least…

As someone in the security field, please don't sell exploits to brokers. Aside from the moral and ethical implications it's also doing a disservice to the industry in general.

Compare that to the ethical implications of megacorporations expecting private individuals to work for free or peanuts.

A rational individual should look at bug bounties and exploit brokers and use the highest bidder.

I'm a security professional, and I think brokers are a net positive to the industry. The more that market makers expose the real price/cost of security flaws, the more investment will be made in defensive measures.

Re: Ask HN: Recent computer hacking convictions and employability?

#110

Post by feoren »

megous wrote: post #83
huhtenberg wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, the main hurdle here is the need for the OP to demonstrate that they left past ethics fully and firmly behind.

Demonstrate ethics? They'd have to be hired for that, I think. Otherwise how do you demonstrate ethics to someone who doesn't know you, yet? :) Certainly not in a interview, that's just talk and smiles and promises.

I think the OP's 2nd and 3rd paragraphs are good demonstrations of their ethics. A track record of "doing good" and having lots of others vouch for you is a good way to demonstrate ethics to someone who doesn't know you yet.
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