Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges • Hacker News Board

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#251

Post by dqv » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 3:27 PM UTC

dncornholio wrote: post #183

edmcnulty101 wrote: post #102

Why is this a reckless driving question and not a reckless pedestrian question?

Because pedestrians have the intrinsic motivation of not wanting to die. This question baffles me because where I'm from, hitting a pedestrian or biker with your car, the car driver is almost always 100% liable. And it works. Cars don't want to hit cyclists or pedestrians because they don't want to pay, and cyclists/pedestrians don't want to hit cars because they want to stay alive.

>Because pedestrians have the intrinsic motivation of not wanting to die.

Do they? Where I live, at night, no one ever wears reflectors, save a few cyclists. It seems like people don’t think about this at all. You’re walking around at night and someone driving a car doesn’t see you until it’s too late. I think there is some merit to asking the question about how pedestrians can be safer. I’m happy to practice what I preach and wear reflectors at night but it seems that pedestrians are ignorant about their visibility. You can only be so safe driving a car, it’s not feasible to drive 5mph everywhere you go.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#252

Post by thaway2839 » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 3:28 PM UTC

stetrain wrote: post #125

gameswithgo wrote: post #2

In Austin Texas we have an absurdly well marked crosswalk on the way to the elementary school, to a close approximation nobody has ever stopped to let us cross. Our daughter was nearly killed once, so far. It seems so many people in America are so fat now they don’t imagine people would ever walk, so they drive without regard for pedestrians and active hostility towards cyclists and park in the way of sidewalks, maki…

Well that correlation can work in the other direction too. What if poor US urban planning has led to sedentary lives where walking to places like grocery stores, parks, or transit is unpleasant, inconvenient, or impossible. So we sit on our butts and drive our cars everywhere, which means more lanes and more parking lots which in return keeps things farther apart and less walkable. People who are never pedestrians pe…

It is indeed a vicious cycle.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#253

Post by aurizon » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 3:28 PM UTC

palijer wrote: post #130

aurizon wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Toronto there are paid people with fluorescent traffic warden clothes and signage who attend all crosswalks and traffic light for the student travel periods, AM, Noon, PM. Other times they have walk buttons that start flashing lights and an overhead banner (flasher lighted)

And that still doesn't seem to stop reckless driving from killing pedestrians. The only thing that will slow drivers down is when they feel unsafe themselves, or have a risk to their vehicle. Adding signs or automatic fines doesn't do anything. You need narrower streets utilizing actual traffic calling techniques. It's such a sad sight to see signs with a "traffic calming zone" sign, but absolutely zero traffic calmi…

Yes, good video. Canada and the USA has this demonic granting of speed rights to drivers. They could put in automatic speed traps on all street, with a fine by mail of a small amount, say $10 = a nuisance, but as they pile up the constant nag by mail, with a forced full payment to renew the plate will have a coercive enduring affect. It is important to keep it small - with a caveat. You are allowed to go yo court. If you challenge in court = higher tier of fines + time wasted burden. After a few months most will comply. Now manned speed traps have huge fines, huge police/court $$ burden. Cops tied up at speed traps prevent no crime, just fine a few people/day as the ticketing process at the street level is very slow. Automatic radar speed traps are fast. People hate them because they also have huge fines = lobby politicians a lot. The small nominal fine will get compliance without the same amount of lobbying and other pushback,

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#254

Post by throwaway0a5e » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 3:31 PM UTC

thaway2839 wrote: post #243

nverno wrote: post #44

This article seems pretty misleading. Looking at the historical trends [1], there were more pedestrian deaths per year 50 years ago. And that is before taking into account that the population has doubled since then! There is clearly an uptick in recent years, but this nyt article is trying to hard to hype it up. Coming off historical lows, around 10 years ago, the percentage yearly increase can sound more shocking th…

The uptick is real. It's an uptick despite reduced driving. A 45% increase in deaths per mile driven is no joke. Further, you're also ignoring advancements in medicine, emergency services, healthcare systems, rules (e.g., cities in the US have drastically reduced max speeds), safety focused street design changes, etc. that mean that the odds of a pedestrian dying have reduced in general. Comparing broadly to 50 years…

Reduction in miles doesn't proportionally reduce exposure to pedestrians. The bulk of the mileage reduction has been people's commutes and your average commute is dominated by limited access pedestrian free roads.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#255

Post by rocgf » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 3:31 PM UTC

avs733 wrote: post #207

rocgf wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you'd have to be European to understand just how ridiculous this sounds.

(it was sarcasm, I honestly went back and forth several times about whether to add an indicator and decided it was unbecoming) My wife and I are a one car household. On a typical day we both alt commute - I run or bike 7 miles to work and she runs/walks 3-4. We walk our daughter to and from daycare - even in the rain. These are choices we are barely able to make because we live in the near burbs of a pedestrian focus…

Ha, fair enough, you got me!

I live in the Netherlands and the cycling and pedestrian infrastructure is indeed better than anywhere else I've been. Apart from maybe Denmark, I doubt there's anywhere that comes close to the Netherlands, so comparing the US to it is pretty useless.

There's still plenty to improve, and plenty is improving, to be fair. In the last few years, I've seen quite a few impressive changes in Amsterdam's cycling infrastructure, which was already amazing. Streets getting redesigned now are taking cycling very seriously.

There's also Bicycle Dutch on a similar note to Not Just Bikes, but less polished.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#256

Post by syshum » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 3:32 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #177

syshum wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>and antisocial. OK And? I fully admit I am anti-social. >>The other issue here is that you still pay for the roads, maintenance, police patrols, rest stops, expansion, environmental degradation, snow removal, insurance for cars, gas infrastructure, and all of those things related to roads but since you don’t get a specific bill in the mail with the line item for roads that you don’t think you’re paying for them or…

> Honestly if city employed people to remove the snow from the sidewalks and sent me a bill like they do trash collection I would have less of a problem with them. That is not what they do though... I'm not kidding - the other day some kids walked by and asked if they could shovel my sidewalk and driveway before I got the chance to do it myself and I just paid them to do it. How cool is that? Why do you need the city…

Because not everyone has neighborhoods of kids offering to shovel snow, I even tried to contract it out however most of the companies around here want commercial contracts not residential snow removal, and the ones that do offer "best effort" time tables where their commercial customers come first.

The last home I had with sidewalks the city would fine you if they were not cleared in 24 hours, contractors would come 3-5 days later

>How can you do that when they have to drive everywhere?

never said it would not create other problems, I solve the teens dying problem the same way everyone solved the COVID problem, just lock down. it "worked" then right ;)

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#257

Post by aww_dang » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 3:34 PM UTC

TimonKnigge wrote: post #214

aww_dang wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for cycling, but as a former bike messenger this take feels a bit extreme. The obesity crisis is real and people should get out and be more active. No matter how many concessions are made, most people are just unable to get over the lack of inertia and start cycling. Even if we allow for a hypothetical safety utopia, comments here will cite sweating as a deal breaker. I understand and empathize with beginners…

> After decades of riding (sometimes wildly irresponsibly) I can only count on one hand motorists who were actively trying to run me over. I don't see how this is a good thing? I've been riding my bike since I was a little kid (in the Netherlands) and I've had zero people actively try to kill me, I'm not sure why any nonzero number is not a big deal.

The point being that there are people out there who might be provoked, but as you observe it certainly isn't the norm. It isn't as prevalent as comments here would suggest. Bicycling is safe, despite all of the alarmism. Hope this helps.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#258

Post by sporkland » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 3:34 PM UTC

sharikous wrote: post #200

Here in Israel the most reckless drivers are food delivery scooters. They don't respect traffic laws, including red lights. And the pandemic has really increased their numbers.

At least they are incentived by their own vulnerability to not hit or be hit by things. As opposed to your average modern car which has made the operator of an automobile super safe at the expense of pedestrians, bicycles, etc.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#259

Post by mistersquid » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #241

mistersquid wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point being, when possible, you should walk facing into traffic. Please do not recommend this reckless and often illegal behavior. If walking in the street, one should walk with traffic when possible. Drivers and other forms of traffic merging into traffic do not expect pedestrian traffic coming from the wrong direction. Salmoning causes other dangers, too, for example, by making it difficult to impossible for…

Governments disagree. e.g. https://trafficsafety.ny.gov/tips-pedestrian-safety

Thank you for the link.

Either guidance and some laws have changed since I last was educated on this topic or my memory is faulty.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#260

Post by refurb » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 3:38 PM UTC

jpm_sd wrote: post #83

I live in a dense, walkable Boston suburb that is served by the MBTA commuter rail. But it's also full of "Masshole" drivers and adjacent to a couple of high-traffic major highways. I've observed a sharp increase in impatience and road rage, both on our 25 mph city streets, and on and off Rtes 1 and 93, in the last 2 years. Not to mention ever-more inattentive driving with eyes on phones. It's pretty alarming. I don'…

You’re blaming Trump, I have that right? That comment just screams “I live in a bubble”.