Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges • Hacker News Board

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#221

Post by iso1631 » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 2:53 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #136

Drivers are the leading cause of dead kids. But for some reason we completely ignore it, while focusing on gun violence (which is also bad, to be clear). I really don't know a solution aside from moving to a country that's better designed. The US seems too far gone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul_xzyCDT98

https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2018/12/21/child-dea...

The researchers found that motor vehicle crashes were the leading cause of child deaths in the United States, comprising about 20% of all deaths among children in 2016. The chief reason for the crashes was cell phone use by drivers and pedestrians, the researchers found.

Firearms were the second leading cause of deaths among children and adolescents in 2016, according to the researchers. Overall, there was a 28% relative increase in the rate of firearm deaths among U.S. children, likely driven by a 32% increase in firearm homicides and a 26% increase in firearm suicides, the researchers said. They found that the odds of a child being killed by a firearm are 36 times higher in the United States than in other high-income countries.

About 16 children per 100k die each year in the US

https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/22-child-deaths...

In the UK for comparision it's about 10 per 100k

https://stateofchildhealth.rcpch.ac.uk/evidence/mortality/ch...

I'm not convinced the US focuses on either gun violence or deaths from cars

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#222

Post by giantg2 » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 2:56 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #127

stirbot wrote: post #99

While this driver appears to be facing homicide by vehicle charges in addition to fleeing the scene, it is very common in the US for a driver to kill a pedestrian and face no criminal charges or loss of driving privileges as long as they stop and dial 911. While out walking I often think of a quote from a Freakomomics podcast that goes something like 'the best way to get away will killing someone in the US is to hit…

100% agree. As a cyclist, I try to stay up on local road design, planning, etc. We design our roads for maximum throughput of cars, without much consideration of other road users. 25mph roads are usually wide enough to safely travel 50mph or more. Trees are removed, which reduces the driver's sense of speed. Crosswalks are an afterthought and signaled crosswalks are a rarity outside urban cores. Bike lanes get introd…

Design can be good. I think even with good design we need better driver training.

For example, I have no problem with 55 mph roads along farm fields, even with bikes or buggies sharing them. The idea is that drivers should be slowing and waiting patiently to pass. Many drivers don't even know that the law requires a minimum of 4 feet separation when passing a bicycle. Just like many bicyclist either don't know or don't care to stop at stop signs or walk their bike across a crosswalk when using one (at least slow to walking speed).

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#223

Post by dylan604 » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 2:57 PM UTC

hervature wrote: post #197

ghaff wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I somewhat hesitate to anecdata this in the same general area. But... For a time, I might have been inclined to put it down to people just weren't driving and had "forgotten" how. But I think that's hard to argue for at this point. I've nearly got run off the road on a merge or had a horn blown at me followed by a pass on the shoulder because I was apparently only going at the speed limit multiple times in just the p…

As someone who has driven quite extensively in SF, LA, NYC, and Boston, I don't know why Bostonians are adamant that their traffic and drivers are as bad as these other cities. My #1 frustration with Boston traffic is how "polite" drivers are. Multiple times, I've had the last car in a string of cars stop at a green light to let me turn left which is probably the most infuriating/stupid thing you can do. What I will…

>(Davis Square - where 7 streets meet)

This doesn't sound very square to me.

I'm totally amazed at how some cities do not have protected left turn signals. During high traffic times, this means you can litterally never have a gap. Which leads to the situation where once the light turns red, 3-4 cars wanting to turn left run the red light. LA was the worst of the places I've experienced this.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#224

Post by ghaff » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 2:57 PM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #159

dhbradshaw wrote: post #31

Here's kind of a weird hypothesis worth at least considering: Record pricing for used cars suggests that there's a car shortage. Ironically, less cars and less driving could lead to 1. Faster driving because of clearer roads, and 2. More walking. Combine those and it wouldn't be surprising to get more auto-pedestrian accidents. One test would be to compare changes to car accidents with changes to pedestrian accidents…

2. More people walking who rarely walked before. The point being, when possible, you should walk facing into traffic. I see people, often enough, walking in the road with traffic. Experienced walkers tend to know this.

I thought this was something everyone learned when they were quite young.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#225

Post by rahulnair23 » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 2:58 PM UTC

Many causes have been put forward for this. However, I'm not sure the all safety aspects here have been well understood.

Here in Dublin, Ireland the few weeks immediately after the lockdowns where horrendous for driver behaviour and aggression. It took a while till behaviours were back to the norm. It was almost as if people needed to get reacquainted with it.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#226

Post by Beltalowda » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 2:59 PM UTC

jimmyvalmer wrote: post #210

The legal driving age for men should be raised to 40. Problem solved.

Taking average statistics of a population group and applying them to individuals is pretty much the description of discrimination.

And anecdotally, I've met plenty of bonkers female drivers, too. Including two who tried to run my bicycle off the road because they felt that cyclists should not be on the road (in both cases, I was in the cycle lane).

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#227

Post by guitarbill » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 2:59 PM UTC

shkkmo wrote: post #208

dazc wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, if you are in the road then, in the mind of the driver, you should not be there and there are various ways in which they will demonstrate this to you. Ranging from an angry face, at one end of the spectrum, to purposely accelerating towards you, at the other. So, yes, I think you're right, casualties are more likely to increase since few drivers are going to be changing their behaviour any time soon…

I've been yelled multiple times this last year for crossing the road...at a stop light when I had a "walk" light. I always treat cars as if they are trying to kill me, but the levels of callous disregard for the safety and wellbeing of other road users seems like it has reached new highs. I think we need to get much more proactive about revoking licenses. I am also heavily considering getting a dashcam to start recor…

The police won't do anything, unless you get hit. But having a "dashcam" while walking is something I'd recommend. Some cyclists already do it. With that, at least in the worse cases, you'd have great evidence it was the driver's fault. Not having that uncertainty in an otherwise their-word-against-your-word situation should also make it easier to press charges or get insurance to pay.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#228

Post by Steltek » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 3:00 PM UTC

snird wrote: post #220

sharikous wrote: post #200

Here in Israel the most reckless drivers are food delivery scooters. They don't respect traffic laws, including red lights. And the pandemic has really increased their numbers.

That's because they are paid per delivery, incentivizing them to go as fast as possible with no regards to the law. An the companies sending them will have no repercussions if the police will stop the delivery guys - making the companies care less and even encouraging this behavior.

You got the same behavior from Uber drivers. They'll park wherever is closest to their fare, regardless of whether it blocks traffic, because if they don't, the fare gives them a 1-star rating.

Cousin was a city cop. If he told them to move, they'd seriously just ignore him. Now ask yourself if you're going to ticket this guy and possibly suspend his livelihood when everyone else is doing it with virtual impunity?

It's a messed up system.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#229

Post by jcranmer » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 3:01 PM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #75

kmlx wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

elevated pedestrian crossing is the solution here. used across London with great effect. anyway, there are many ways to calm traffic.

We used to have lovely speedbumps every 50 meters or so in our neighborhood. Can’t drive fast if it’ll make your car fly.

The problem with speed bumps is they tend to make drivers speed up in between the speed bumps to make up for lost time; it's probably the least effective traffic calming measure. The most effective one would probably be shrinking the width of the road so that the lanes are narrower, which makes high speed difficult along the entire length of the road, not merely the stretches around speed bumps.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#230

Post by QuarterReptile » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 3:01 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #190

QuarterReptile wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen Trump lumped into the scapegoating of recent traffic deaths onto grumpy motorists, but certainly the pandemic-despair traffic death meme is widespread. Strong Towns has a different explanation that is less dependent on the entire driving public sharing a mindset with a few journalists at big papers: much of the congestion, which acted as the only reasonable limit to speed on our very dangerous roads,…

"much of the congestion, which acted as the only reasonable limit to speed" Based on my recent experiences, I sort of agree - but more so as a negative control. My area does not have much bumper to bumper traffic, and never has. I have not noticed additional increase in speeding. The thing I have noticed is bad decision making or inattentive behavior. People pulling out when they shouldn't (possibly due to misjudged…

>The thing I have noticed is bad decision making or inattentive behavior. People pulling out when they shouldn't (possibly due to misjudged speed)....

Possibly the result of the other drivers being able to drive faster, thus giving less space to pull out?

> or looking at their phone and drifting from their lane.

This one is much easier to connect to lower traffic levels. As the complexity of the environment decreases with the drop in traffic, drivers feel safer to do things like be on their phones. Being on your phone is very similar to higher speed in that it is a higher-risk response that many drivers would rather engage in if there is no apparent downside.

I find this explanation to be consistent with the way people respond to weather by slowing down (and do so differently in different locales depending on their familiarity with that weather), or how , when I used to drive up to the SFO airport for Friday night red-eyes, it was rare to encounter cars driving less than 100mph on the pristine, nearly-empty freeway.