Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges • Hacker News Board

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#211

Post by giantg2 » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

cool_dude85 wrote: post #179

giantg2 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sidewalks are not a significant additional expense" Depends on your definition of significant and sidewalk. It does add cost, so it's not insignificant (you can observe it with confidence). For states that are already struggling with infrastructure costs, it would not be feasible (look at PA and it's bridges). Most states or municipalities actually have codes that the sidewalk has to follow. So it it's not legally p…

>Depends on your definition of significant and sidewalk. It does add cost, so it's not insignificant (you can observe it with confidence). What a bad-faith definition you're using here. By this definition if you reimbursed a road worker for a penny they dropped during their shift building the road it'd be a significant expense.

It seems you are making a bad-faith interpretation. If you read the rest of my comment you will see I gave an example of a state that it would not be feasible to build sidewalks for all roads given the current economic situation. Furthermore, your example of a worker being reimbursed for dropping a penny seems to be entirely fictious.

Do you have any actual data to support the idea that sidewalks for all roads are a feasible goal?

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#212

Post by in_cahoots » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 2:49 PM UTC

cmiles74 wrote: post #166

jpm_sd wrote: post #83

I live in a dense, walkable Boston suburb that is served by the MBTA commuter rail. But it's also full of "Masshole" drivers and adjacent to a couple of high-traffic major highways. I've observed a sharp increase in impatience and road rage, both on our 25 mph city streets, and on and off Rtes 1 and 93, in the last 2 years. Not to mention ever-more inattentive driving with eyes on phones. It's pretty alarming. I don'…

I live and work in a home office in Western MA, the road outside my office is somewhat busy but is hardly the main road through town. Even so, the number of horns honking and brakes screeching has increased enough that I find myself wincing on calls when it happens. It could be that I'm simply more sensitive since the dramatic decrease of traffic during the pandemic, but my perception is that people are driving more…

Were you working from home prior to the pandemic to hear the noise during work hours?

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#213

Post by alistairSH » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 2:49 PM UTC

QuarterReptile wrote: post #171

jpm_sd wrote: post #83

I live in a dense, walkable Boston suburb that is served by the MBTA commuter rail. But it's also full of "Masshole" drivers and adjacent to a couple of high-traffic major highways. I've observed a sharp increase in impatience and road rage, both on our 25 mph city streets, and on and off Rtes 1 and 93, in the last 2 years. Not to mention ever-more inattentive driving with eyes on phones. It's pretty alarming. I don'…

I've never seen Trump lumped into the scapegoating of recent traffic deaths onto grumpy motorists, but certainly the pandemic-despair traffic death meme is widespread. Strong Towns has a different explanation that is less dependent on the entire driving public sharing a mindset with a few journalists at big papers: much of the congestion, which acted as the only reasonable limit to speed on our very dangerous roads,…

That might explain the speeding, but I've noticed an increase in road-rage incidents as well. Lots of honking, lots of swerving, lots of high-risk passing. I'm in the DC suburbs, so this isn't limited to Boston either. And I see it on roads that were never bumper to bumper or anywhere close.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#214

Post by TimonKnigge » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 2:49 PM UTC

aww_dang wrote: post #36

gameswithgo wrote: post #2

In Austin Texas we have an absurdly well marked crosswalk on the way to the elementary school, to a close approximation nobody has ever stopped to let us cross. Our daughter was nearly killed once, so far. It seems so many people in America are so fat now they don’t imagine people would ever walk, so they drive without regard for pedestrians and active hostility towards cyclists and park in the way of sidewalks, maki…

I'm all for cycling, but as a former bike messenger this take feels a bit extreme. The obesity crisis is real and people should get out and be more active. No matter how many concessions are made, most people are just unable to get over the lack of inertia and start cycling. Even if we allow for a hypothetical safety utopia, comments here will cite sweating as a deal breaker. I understand and empathize with beginners…

> After decades of riding (sometimes wildly irresponsibly) I can only count on one hand motorists who were actively trying to run me over.

I don't see how this is a good thing? I've been riding my bike since I was a little kid (in the Netherlands) and I've had zero people actively try to kill me, I'm not sure why any nonzero number is not a big deal.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#215

Post by _dain_ » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 2:49 PM UTC

sethammons wrote: post #199

_dain_ wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you show me this crosswalk on Streetview? I'm trying to get an idea of the kinds of environments people are talking about in this thread (I'm non-American).

Here is the exact intersection. It looks safer than it is (or was, I've since moved far away). https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7878268,-117.8588114,3a,75y,...

That doesn't look safe at all. Five lanes! And you have to cross them all in one go, with no signaling!!! My goodness. Such a thing would never be constructed here (UK)*. There would be, at minimum, a protected pedestrian island in the middle, so that in crossing you only need to look in one direction at a time. Almost always a set of pedestrian-controlled traffic lights too. In the Netherlands they might even go a step further and put in a continuous sidewalk (i.e. the surface the pedestrians walk on remains at the same level as the sidewalk, so that cars have to rise onto it like a speedbump).

Here is an example comparable to yours: a 4-lane major road intersecting perpendicularly with a 2-lane minor road. Pedestrians have controlled crossings across the major part, and protected islands so they never have to cross more than two lanes in one go:

https://goo.gl/maps/MYbcyPgQZD1PMAL69

This design is standard everywhere. And it isn't even optimal (it doesn't accommodate cyclists very well).

*If you searched high and low across the country you might find a counterexample or two, but the fact remains that this kind of junction is thoroughly alien to the British built environment.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#216

Post by atomicfiredoll » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 2:50 PM UTC

Steltek wrote: post #173

jpm_sd wrote: post #83

I live in a dense, walkable Boston suburb that is served by the MBTA commuter rail. But it's also full of "Masshole" drivers and adjacent to a couple of high-traffic major highways. I've observed a sharp increase in impatience and road rage, both on our 25 mph city streets, and on and off Rtes 1 and 93, in the last 2 years. Not to mention ever-more inattentive driving with eyes on phones. It's pretty alarming. I don'…

Boston drivers were cconditioned for perpetual bumper-to-bumper traffic. With traffic levels down, there was no bumper in front of them to slow them down so they just floor it until they find one.

And then they complain that the car in front of them isn't "moving at the speed of traffic."

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#217

Post by ghaff » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 2:51 PM UTC

hervature wrote: post #197

ghaff wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I somewhat hesitate to anecdata this in the same general area. But... For a time, I might have been inclined to put it down to people just weren't driving and had "forgotten" how. But I think that's hard to argue for at this point. I've nearly got run off the road on a merge or had a horn blown at me followed by a pass on the shoulder because I was apparently only going at the speed limit multiple times in just the p…

As someone who has driven quite extensively in SF, LA, NYC, and Boston, I don't know why Bostonians are adamant that their traffic and drivers are as bad as these other cities. My #1 frustration with Boston traffic is how "polite" drivers are. Multiple times, I've had the last car in a string of cars stop at a green light to let me turn left which is probably the most infuriating/stupid thing you can do. What I will…

LA I don't really know. But SF and NYC (especially) are relatively challenging to drive in as well. I do agree that, especially pre-GPS, Boston/Cambridge/Somerville are most challenging by the almost complete lack of any sort of a grid and all the weird intersections. When I moved back to the area with a car after grad school--though not to the city itself--I think it really took me at least a couple of years before I felt comfortable navigating more or less by instinct rather than having to constantly refer to a map.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#218

Post by throwaway0a5e » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 2:51 PM UTC

jpm_sd wrote: post #83

I live in a dense, walkable Boston suburb that is served by the MBTA commuter rail. But it's also full of "Masshole" drivers and adjacent to a couple of high-traffic major highways. I've observed a sharp increase in impatience and road rage, both on our 25 mph city streets, and on and off Rtes 1 and 93, in the last 2 years. Not to mention ever-more inattentive driving with eyes on phones. It's pretty alarming. I don'…

>It does feel like the one-two punch of [Trump + pandemic] has led to people feeling more entitled to let their rage and impatience out in public.

Well the fact that you're seeing what you're seeing in a very expensive Boston suburb seems to point in the other direction. Shouldn't that be the place in the country that sees the most pro-social behavior as a result of the pandemic and has the fewest people seeing Trump as something that should be emulated?

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#219

Post by guitarbill » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 2:52 PM UTC

gilbetron wrote: post #49

samwillis wrote: post #34

Here in the UK they have just changed the Highway Code (the rules that given all road users, including pedestrians) so that pedestrians have ultimate right of way in almost all cases. It’s the opposite of the situation in the US, a pedestrian in the UK can cross the road anywhere and I believe cars have to stop and make way. It’s going to be interesting to see how it effects accident numbers, I’m worry it may actuall…

The small US city I live in made such a change, it we had several pedestrians get hit in the first year or so because drivers aren't used to it, can't see people very well, and pedestrians just figured everyone would now just stop. We changed the laws to restrict it to only crosswalks and added in a ton of new crosswalks. Even then, it was still a problem because pedestrians don't realize when someone can see them. I…

> We changed the laws to restrict it to only crosswalks and added in a ton of new crosswalks. Even then, it was still a problem because pedestrians don't realize when someone can see them. If the are in the shade of a tree on a bright day, they can't be seen.

Yeah, nice one. Blaming the pedestrians, not the drivers. If the drivers can't see the pedestrians at a crosswalk, they simply need to drive slower.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#220

Post by snird » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 2:53 PM UTC

sharikous wrote: post #200

Here in Israel the most reckless drivers are food delivery scooters. They don't respect traffic laws, including red lights. And the pandemic has really increased their numbers.

That's because they are paid per delivery, incentivizing them to go as fast as possible with no regards to the law.

An the companies sending them will have no repercussions if the police will stop the delivery guys - making the companies care less and even encouraging this behavior.