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Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

nytimes.com

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Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#161

Post by kilotaras »

gameswithgo wrote: post #2

In Austin Texas we have an absurdly well marked crosswalk on the way to the elementary school, to a close approximation nobody has ever stopped to let us cross. Our daughter was nearly killed once, so far. It seems so many people in America are so fat now they don’t imagine people would ever walk, so they drive without regard for pedestrians and active hostility towards cyclists and park in the way of sidewalks, maki…

That's why I'm a big advocate for infrastructure changes. The expected behaviour should be the most comfortable one.

Raised crossings[1] or deliberate narrowing [2] forces people to pay attention and slow down.

[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Raised_Crossing_In_P...

[2] https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5376862,-0.1105682,3a,75y,19...

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#162

Post by fingerlocks »

laputan_machine wrote: post #143
gilbetron wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The small US city I live in made such a change, it we had several pedestrians get hit in the first year or so because drivers aren't used to it, can't see people very well, and pedestrians just figured everyone would now just stop. We changed the laws to restrict it to only crosswalks and added in a ton of new crosswalks. Even then, it was still a problem because pedestrians don't realize when someone can see them. I…

In the US you aren't allowed to cross the road wherever you wish as a pedestrian? That seems bizarre to me, in the UK it's completely normal for pedestrians to cross the road wherever they want to. > and I guarantee you'll see a spike of pedestrians getting hit for a while. I guarantee the UK has a lower incidence of traffic collisions than the US, per capita or per miles driven.

“Jaywalking” is rarely enforced in most places, even if it is a law at all, so yes you can probably cross anywhere you want. That doesn’t mean traffic will yield for you when waiting to cross, which is what we’re discussing here. Definitely look both ways before crossing in the US; drivers don’t expect pedestrians to randomly appear in the middle of the street.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#163

Post by ruddct »

stirbot wrote: post #99

While this driver appears to be facing homicide by vehicle charges in addition to fleeing the scene, it is very common in the US for a driver to kill a pedestrian and face no criminal charges or loss of driving privileges as long as they stop and dial 911. While out walking I often think of a quote from a Freakomomics podcast that goes something like 'the best way to get away will killing someone in the US is to hit…

To give just a few examples of the legal side of this: Here in NY, killing someone with a vehicle is a misdemeanor (unless you're drunk/high). People avoid this charge by claiming a medical incident while driving, and are often able to drive off from the scene of the crime. Hit-and-runs result in arrest less than 1% of the time. Speed cameras are restricted in number, location (only by schools) and hours of operation (they're off on nights/weekends) by the state. And good luck complaining about illegal/unsafe parking, you might start getting death threats from anonymous phone numbers[0].

It won't shock you to know that people are aware of all of this, and drive accordingly.

[0] https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2022/02/10/city-hall-condemns-de...

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#164

Post by stirbot »

ejb999 wrote: post #129
stirbot wrote: post #99

While this driver appears to be facing homicide by vehicle charges in addition to fleeing the scene, it is very common in the US for a driver to kill a pedestrian and face no criminal charges or loss of driving privileges as long as they stop and dial 911. While out walking I often think of a quote from a Freakomomics podcast that goes something like 'the best way to get away will killing someone in the US is to hit…

>>The high rate of pedestrian deaths is a result of policy regarding road design, pedestrian infrastructure and lenient criminal charges. The driving culture is also to blame. Driving is a god given right. Cars equal freedom, and the bigger the better. Pedestrians are a nuisance and cyclists are the enemy. Yea, but almost none of those things have changed in the last two year - so does nothing to explain the spike in…

I agree with you regarding lax enforcement, especially in the last few years. But this is also cultural. We have the technology to enforce traffic laws via sensors but even then they are implemented they are often removed by the next local election or blown to bits with buckshot.

My state has targets for acceptable rates of annual pedestrian deaths when designing intersections. I find the fact that we elect to sacrifice lives in order to bump up vehicles-per-hour stats rather disturbing. Again nothing new but helps explain why the US is an outlier.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#165

Post by sophacles »

ejb999 wrote: post #129
stirbot wrote: post #99

While this driver appears to be facing homicide by vehicle charges in addition to fleeing the scene, it is very common in the US for a driver to kill a pedestrian and face no criminal charges or loss of driving privileges as long as they stop and dial 911. While out walking I often think of a quote from a Freakomomics podcast that goes something like 'the best way to get away will killing someone in the US is to hit…

>>The high rate of pedestrian deaths is a result of policy regarding road design, pedestrian infrastructure and lenient criminal charges. The driving culture is also to blame. Driving is a god given right. Cars equal freedom, and the bigger the better. Pedestrians are a nuisance and cyclists are the enemy. Yea, but almost none of those things have changed in the last two year - so does nothing to explain the spike in…

Attempts to make the police more accountable are the cause of pedestrian deaths?

Do you have any data showing this causal link at all? Maybe broken down by place so we can see links like the pedestrian death increases match the places that did those things. Since you actually list several causal things, it can be broken down by places that limited enforcement for covid reasons vs those that defunded vs those that didn't do those things? Bonus points if you bother to break out the overly broad "defunded" category into actual policy change groupings, there were a lot of reforms that got lumped into that term, many of them having nothing to do with money to enforce laws.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#166

Post by cmiles74 »

jpm_sd wrote: post #83

I live in a dense, walkable Boston suburb that is served by the MBTA commuter rail. But it's also full of "Masshole" drivers and adjacent to a couple of high-traffic major highways. I've observed a sharp increase in impatience and road rage, both on our 25 mph city streets, and on and off Rtes 1 and 93, in the last 2 years. Not to mention ever-more inattentive driving with eyes on phones. It's pretty alarming. I don'…

I live and work in a home office in Western MA, the road outside my office is somewhat busy but is hardly the main road through town. Even so, the number of horns honking and brakes screeching has increased enough that I find myself wincing on calls when it happens. It could be that I'm simply more sensitive since the dramatic decrease of traffic during the pandemic, but my perception is that people are driving more aggressively and are quicker to anger.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#167

Post by blinkingled »

Anecdotally it seems to match my (and my Nextdoor neighbors') experience. As if reckless driving wasn't enough making the cars noisier is another thing that is bothersome.

People buying old cars and putting money in them is yet another recent trend everywhere that even I've participated in. It's fun to pass time trying to fix older cars.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#168

Post by syshum »

ericmay wrote: post #117
syshum wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actively resist putting sidewalks in my neighborhood, and actively bought into this neighborhood because it lacks them Why? Because do not want to incur the costs of maintaining them, nor the liability that comes with them from either a city stand point, or injury standpoint If sidewalks where maintained by the city, including snow removal, and repairs, then maybe. but the fact is in most location they are an impos…

Rules for these things vary by state. Personally I view your take on cleaning sidewalks off of snow (again which vary by state) as really concerning and antisocial. The other issue here is that you still pay for the roads, maintenance, police patrols, rest stops, expansion, environmental degradation, snow removal, insurance for cars, gas infrastructure, and all of those things related to roads but since you don’t get…

>>and antisocial.

OK And? I fully admit I am anti-social.

>>The other issue here is that you still pay for the roads, maintenance, police patrols, rest stops, expansion, environmental degradation, snow removal, insurance for cars, gas infrastructure, and all of those things related to roads but since you don’t get a specific bill in the mail with the line item for roads that you don’t think you’re paying for them or a huge cost for them.

The cost is not the problem for me, and I would prefer to get a bill for every single one of those items. Honestly if city employed people to remove the snow from the sidewalks and sent me a bill like they do trash collection I would have less of a problem with them. That is not what they do though...

>How much does it cost to have car accidents as the leading cause of death of teenagers?

Solve that problem by getting teens off the road.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#169

Post by chiefalchemist »

stirbot wrote: post #99

While this driver appears to be facing homicide by vehicle charges in addition to fleeing the scene, it is very common in the US for a driver to kill a pedestrian and face no criminal charges or loss of driving privileges as long as they stop and dial 911. While out walking I often think of a quote from a Freakomomics podcast that goes something like 'the best way to get away will killing someone in the US is to hit…

I live outside Philadelphia and tend to follow the local PHL news (as opposed to NYC's). A couple of times per week, there are reports of hit & runs, as well as an occasional the driver stopped.

In any case, anecdotally, the hit & runs tend to happen a night, late at night. I often wonder if the pedestrian and/or driver were under the influence.* Or, at the very least the car's headlights were off (as I was nearly hit a few months ago because of lack of headlights on).

* afaik, drug and alcohol usage has increased in the last two yrs "due to Covid."

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#170

Post by ghaff »

dhbradshaw wrote: post #31

Here's kind of a weird hypothesis worth at least considering: Record pricing for used cars suggests that there's a car shortage. Ironically, less cars and less driving could lead to 1. Faster driving because of clearer roads, and 2. More walking. Combine those and it wouldn't be surprising to get more auto-pedestrian accidents. One test would be to compare changes to car accidents with changes to pedestrian accidents…

I don't know. Anecdotally traffic around where I am seemed to be pretty much back to normal surprisingly early on. I decided I really lived in a bubble because most people I knew were definitely staying home a lot more.
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