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Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

nytimes.com

31–40 of 345 posts

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#31
Here's kind of a weird hypothesis worth at least considering:

Record pricing for used cars suggests that there's a car shortage.

Ironically, less cars and less driving could lead to

1. Faster driving because of clearer roads, and

2. More walking.

Combine those and it wouldn't be surprising to get more auto-pedestrian accidents.

One test would be to compare changes to car accidents with changes to pedestrian accidents. Reckless driving should bring both up. More pedestrians should only bring the latter up.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#32

In Austin Texas we have an absurdly well marked crosswalk on the way to the elementary school, to a close approximation nobody has ever stopped to let us cross. Our daughter was nearly killed once, so far. It seems so many people in America are so fat now they don’t imagine people would ever walk, so they drive without regard for pedestrians and active hostility towards cyclists and park in the way of sidewalks, maki…

Moved to Austin during the pandemic, and my experience has been the same. It feels very dangerous to walk or bike anywhere, even in residential areas, because of the aggressive drivers. Even when I’m driving, the pervasive road rage here is much worse than anywhere else I’ve lived (including 3 other major cities). It’s been a real disappointment.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#33
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I forget where this was, but I recall seeing video of police crossing on a crosswalk undercover and whenever a vehicle would fail to yield a cruiser would appear and pull the offender over. I would like to see a lot more of this. In Chicago, people have always blown red lights at speed right in front of parked police cars because they know police won’t do anything (and I’m not even sure if the police are allowed to d…

>I would like to see a lot more of this. The problem is, it doesn't scale, especially in a city as big and violent as Chicago. It only works so long as police keep their foot on the gas (so to speak); they minute they let up on traffic enforcement (because of competing priorities) things will get worse again. If one person speeds, that person is an idiot. But if everyone speeds, the road engineer is an idiot. A syste…

As it stands, Chicago has police cars all over the place (in every neighborhood I’ve lived in anyway) often just sitting there parked and by my estimation there’s close to zero traffic enforcement, so we certainly seem to have a lot of capacity for maintaining this sort of enforcement and I suspect it would be like introducing a few wolves into a national park—it doesn’t take much enforcement to drive significant, broad changes.

> A systemic problem like this is a result of poor road design, not individual deviant drivers.

In many cases, I agree that there is a systemic problem at play, but these cases tend to be highways (i.e., no pedestrians) and the issue is politicians setting speed limits which traffic engineers understand to be unsafely low for the road’s design (the safest speed being that which 85% of drivers would naturally drive if unencumbered). And it hardly matters how engineers design the road because politicians will always respond to a vocal minority who argue that the limits should be lower.

However with respect to streets (i.e., places where pedestrians belong) rather than highways, the issue is only systemic with respect to enforcement—many other parts of the country (or even the same places with different enforcement) have similar streets but drivers are better behaved. Which isn’t to say that there isn’t room for improvement everywhere, but only that the issue isn’t “Chicago has stupid street engineers”.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#34
Here in the UK they have just changed the Highway Code (the rules that given all road users, including pedestrians) so that pedestrians have ultimate right of way in almost all cases. It’s the opposite of the situation in the US, a pedestrian in the UK can cross the road anywhere and I believe cars have to stop and make way.

It’s going to be interesting to see how it effects accident numbers, I’m worry it may actually make accident numbers go up.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-highway-code-8-change...

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#35
post #21

In Austin Texas we have an absurdly well marked crosswalk on the way to the elementary school, to a close approximation nobody has ever stopped to let us cross. Our daughter was nearly killed once, so far. It seems so many people in America are so fat now they don’t imagine people would ever walk, so they drive without regard for pedestrians and active hostility towards cyclists and park in the way of sidewalks, maki…

How exactly did you get to “the cause of reckless driving is fat people who don’t walk everywhere?” Show your work. In most places in America walking is not a practical mode of transportation because of distance; it’s miles from your house to the grocery store, for instance. If you live in a city this might not be obvious to you but half the country lives in the burbs or rural areas. Separately, it would be nice if w…

>Separately, it would be nice if we had more sidewalks, but they are financially unsustainable in low density areas.

Doesn't this actually imply that it's the low density that is financially unsustainable, rather than the sidewalks? I mean if your settlement pattern can't even afford a place for people to walk, what the hell are you doing?

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#36

In Austin Texas we have an absurdly well marked crosswalk on the way to the elementary school, to a close approximation nobody has ever stopped to let us cross. Our daughter was nearly killed once, so far. It seems so many people in America are so fat now they don’t imagine people would ever walk, so they drive without regard for pedestrians and active hostility towards cyclists and park in the way of sidewalks, maki…

I'm all for cycling, but as a former bike messenger this take feels a bit extreme. The obesity crisis is real and people should get out and be more active.

No matter how many concessions are made, most people are just unable to get over the lack of inertia and start cycling. Even if we allow for a hypothetical safety utopia, comments here will cite sweating as a deal breaker.

I understand and empathize with beginners who are not acclimatized to cycling on a busy road. However it doesn't change the fact that you have to start somewhere and build your comfort levels. Pragmatically, this is the more important self-fulfilling dynamic. If you don't start building your skills and instead blame drivers...

There are hostile drivers out there. After decades of riding (sometimes wildly irresponsibly) I can only count on one hand motorists who were actively trying to run me over. In those cases the sentiment was mutual and we had already exchanged words or otherwise escalated. Would have been easy to avoid. Contrast this to the cultural/class rhetoric against pickup-truck drivers.

As a self-appointed expert in the domain, this doesn't ring true for me. It fits better with the theme of Internet hyperbole and media alarmism.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#37
I did not see this data placed alongside the number of traffic fatalities. Our intuition is that the new work-from-home/social-distance world leads to fewer cars on the road. Fewer cars mean higher speeds and possibly, less attentive drivers given the empty lanes. Increased pedestrian fatalities would align with this simple explanation.

A little searching suggests that in the latter quarters of 2021, traffic fatalities fell (https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-fatalities-esti....)

Before we jump to the explanation of angrier drivers (harder to verify or disprove), can we explore the simpler possibility?

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#38

Here in the UK they have just changed the Highway Code (the rules that given all road users, including pedestrians) so that pedestrians have ultimate right of way in almost all cases. It’s the opposite of the situation in the US, a pedestrian in the UK can cross the road anywhere and I believe cars have to stop and make way. It’s going to be interesting to see how it effects accident numbers, I’m worry it may actuall…

I agree, it's ok to change the Highway Code but the infrastructure also needs to change to reflect it.

A contradiction leads to uncertainity, which leads to accidents

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#39

Here in the UK they have just changed the Highway Code (the rules that given all road users, including pedestrians) so that pedestrians have ultimate right of way in almost all cases. It’s the opposite of the situation in the US, a pedestrian in the UK can cross the road anywhere and I believe cars have to stop and make way. It’s going to be interesting to see how it effects accident numbers, I’m worry it may actuall…

It doesn’t matter who has the right of way if car drivers don’t give a shit — which is the case in the US.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#40
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I would like to see a lot more of this. The problem is, it doesn't scale, especially in a city as big and violent as Chicago. It only works so long as police keep their foot on the gas (so to speak); they minute they let up on traffic enforcement (because of competing priorities) things will get worse again. If one person speeds, that person is an idiot. But if everyone speeds, the road engineer is an idiot. A syste…

Traffic circles / roundabouts would go a long way.

Plenty of roundabouts here in Montana.
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