Test Driven Development? You've got to be kidding me...
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Test Driven Development? You've got to be kidding me...
1–10 of 51 posts
Re: Test Driven Development? You've got to be kidding me...
#2I am hoping for a more detailed discussions on which case writing test first hinders productivity.
Being dogmatic and using One True Approach for everything is not good, but if we were to advance ourselves, we need to be able to define what is good and what is bad specifically. Then, fruitful discussion can follows.
Blanket accusation like this would not help no one and is just crying for attention, IMO.
Re: Test Driven Development? You've got to be kidding me...
#3Nothing but flame-bait here. The OP obviously doesn't understand Test Driven Development or why people swear by it.
It's first and foremost a design tool. Secondary to that it tests functionality of your code.
TDD leads to better designed software. Period. No it's not the only way to design software, nor should it be the only tool used when designing the software you're writing, but it will show problems with any design you've got and help you fix them.
Re: Test Driven Development? You've got to be kidding me...
#4I am hoping for a more detailed discussions on which case writing test first hinders productivity. Being dogmatic and using One True Approach for everything is not good, but if we were to advance ourselves, we need to be able to define what is good and what is bad specifically. Then, fruitful discussion can follows. Blanket accusation like this would not help no one and is just crying for attention, IMO.
The problem is that most TDD advocates are so dogmatically strong, that blanket accusations seem to be one of the best ways to trigger debates.
Re: Test Driven Development? You've got to be kidding me...
#5I am hoping for a more detailed discussions on which case writing test first hinders productivity. Being dogmatic and using One True Approach for everything is not good, but if we were to advance ourselves, we need to be able to define what is good and what is bad specifically. Then, fruitful discussion can follows. Blanket accusation like this would not help no one and is just crying for attention, IMO.
Hey, thanks for your comments. Perhaps I should have made more of that in the article. Specifically, I find TDD to be completely unsuitable for any process where you're not 100% wedded to what the result needs to look like at the outset.
Writing tests first is great for - for example - writing a regression test for a bug you've found. Or for adding a small piece of well-defined functionality to an existing interface.
But that's writing tests first in a specific instance, not Test-Driven Development, which is ALWAYS writing tests first.
Writing tests first falls down as soon as your ideas on what needs to be implemented may change as implementation progresses. You find yourself reluctant to change your interface or implementation because dang-it, the test said it should work that way, and now you don't want to change the test. Or you wrote a test for a simple piece of sub-functionality, and then it turns out that relied on an architecture you don't want to use and ...
And if you're not a senior dev with a bucket load of experience, you're unlikely at that point to want to go back and change things.
Re: Test Driven Development? You've got to be kidding me...
#6:) Flame-bait. Seems that Hacker News became a place for such things. Blog where this article was written was made so it can post there while hiding it's identity.
If you want to make fun of 'agile consultants' go ahead, but stick with it with your name.
Re: Test Driven Development? You've got to be kidding me...
#7Nothing but flame-bait here. The OP obviously doesn't understand Test Driven Development or why people swear by it. It's first and foremost a design tool. Secondary to that it tests functionality of your code. TDD leads to better designed software. Period. No it's not the only way to design software, nor should it be the only tool used when designing the software you're writing, but it will show problems with any des…
It's your "Period" that reveals something to me. Like there's no best way than TDD to enforce better design. Like it's the ultimate thing you can do, and behind that there's nothing. Like higher expressivity or code generation cannot even compete with TDD in that regard. Like if you are not doing TDD, then it means your software has bad design.
Re: Test Driven Development? You've got to be kidding me...
#8Nothing but flame-bait here. The OP obviously doesn't understand Test Driven Development or why people swear by it. It's first and foremost a design tool. Secondary to that it tests functionality of your code. TDD leads to better designed software. Period. No it's not the only way to design software, nor should it be the only tool used when designing the software you're writing, but it will show problems with any des…
Automated testing is the raison d'être of the whole blog. TDD is a methodology that also involves automated testing.
If you're going to call it flame-bait, could you expand on some of your ideas or address some of the points made in the article?
Re: Test Driven Development? You've got to be kidding me...
#9I am hoping for a more detailed discussions on which case writing test first hinders productivity. Being dogmatic and using One True Approach for everything is not good, but if we were to advance ourselves, we need to be able to define what is good and what is bad specifically. Then, fruitful discussion can follows. Blanket accusation like this would not help no one and is just crying for attention, IMO.
These types of posts come up every so often, and I don't really understand why. Sure, the main point is valid (for some people). I just don't understand the vitriol behind the Author's post. So what if someone thinks TDD is the bees-knees? So what if they think less of YOU because you don't drink the same kool-aide?
The author won't convince any TDD disciples to change their ways by attacking them. A reasoned post that objectively weights the pros and cons might. But even if the author could affect change, is it really the case that no-one ever would benefit from TDD? It might certainly be used as a crutch by some developers, but if it helps them develop better software, what's the harm? That's their issue to deal with, not anyone else's.
The goal is to write good programs. There's many paths there, and TDD, anti-TDD or part time testing whenever you feel like it all are viable. If TDD can help abstract away a level of thought with regards to testing, and helps speed up the process and helps someone write better code, then that's great.
Re: Test Driven Development? You've got to be kidding me...
#10:) Flame-bait. Seems that Hacker News became a place for such things. Blog where this article was written was made so it can post there while hiding it's identity. If you want to make fun of 'agile consultants' go ahead, but stick with it with your name.
"Posted by Peter Sergeant at 02:30"