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Those writing extensively on note-writing rarely have a serious context of use

notes.andymatuschak.org

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Re: Those writing extensively on note-writing rarely have a serious context of use

#31

Post by blippage »

eachro wrote: post #9

Best model of this I have is math professors from undergrad. I never saw any notes on their desks during office hours. Just pages and pages of scribbles everywhere, crumped on the ground, in the trash bin, etc. I remember asking one how he retained any of the info when reading dense papers, and he said "Oh I never do. I just figure out the details again each time and eventually it sticks."

My maths supervisor always had a bunch of papers on his desk. I never figured out how someone with such a logical mind could have so much stuff everywhere. One feature was a huge vertical pile of papers. I always joked that he knew where everything was, it was just a case of measuring from the ground upwards.

Re: Those writing extensively on note-writing rarely have a serious context of use

#32

Post by kfarr »

Agreed I usually read a few books that circle around core new concepts that I internalize, no notes required. In fact the brain’s built in lossy memory is an advantage here. Related article a few clicks deep points to where I also think writing can be useful:

> Many of the most effective people I know—alive and dead—seem unable to do serious thinking without a writing surface in front of them. It seems to extend cognition somehow: perhaps it effectively extends one’s Span of working memory, or perhaps moving the fingers somehow contributes to the thinking.

Re: Those writing extensively on note-writing rarely have a serious context of use

#33

Post by throwaway81523 »

aaaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #18
throwaway81523 wrote: post #11

What the heck is with that crazy page design? The sliding panels and stuff. I'll see if I can figure out how to read it. That guy must do an awful lot of work keeping them organized and publicly presentable. His basic point is fine, "professional" note taking systems generally seem silly. I have found it worthwhile to keep a bunch of org mode files about stuff I get interested in. They become progressively more usefu…

>This is not too different than the old fashioned way of reading books for English class: keep a yellow pad alongside of the book as you read, and as you read each page, note down the main points made on that page, along with the page number. Wew… That’s a pretty painful way to “enjoy” a book.

Well, it's not reading for entertainment or relaxation, it's coursework where the assignment is to read the book and then write a paper analyzing it. I like reading but was always stupefied by the amount of reading (big armload of books and you had to actually read each of them cover to cover) that those classes required. Math was a lot easier. A class would have one book, would cover maybe half of it, and you didn't have to really read it beyond flipping pages enough to figure out how to do the problem sets. But I'm glad I took the English classes since their point was to teach critical reading and writing, which I hadn't been familiar with before, and which is an important skill. They weren't just about giving you cultcha by exposing you to litteratcha.

Re: Those writing extensively on note-writing rarely have a serious context of use

#36

Post by throwaway81523 »

stavros wrote: post #16
throwaway81523 wrote: post #11

What the heck is with that crazy page design? The sliding panels and stuff. I'll see if I can figure out how to read it. That guy must do an awful lot of work keeping them organized and publicly presentable. His basic point is fine, "professional" note taking systems generally seem silly. I have found it worthwhile to keep a bunch of org mode files about stuff I get interested in. They become progressively more usefu…

I had exactly the same problem thirteen years ago, so I made https://historio.us . You may find it useful, though it does need a bit of an update.

That looks nice! It is similar to what I was describing as an optimization, above. But, I would want it to be on my local machine rather than as a web service, both for privacy and to have permanent ownership of the saved bookmarks/snapshots.

These days, remote-indexing page contents also seems like a technical challenge because of all the javascript and crap in the pages. That may be part of the reason search engines now suck. I guess the browser extension could upload the page contents over the network, but again I'd rather have it local, and that would be a lot faster too.

Re: Those writing extensively on note-writing rarely have a serious context of use

#37

Post by chefandy »

bedobi wrote: post #5

Very refreshing to see content like this. Personally I'm VERY sick of the whole productivity hustle and the people who spout it. They prey on insecurities, make you feel like unless you're employing some kind of productivity system, you're cheating yourself or your employer. In reality however the very systems they tout steal away more productivity to maintain the productivity system itself than any benefit for actua…

Alternate take: you don't face the problem these tools were designed to solve.

My personal organization/productivity methods mitigate some very real (and common) weaknesses. Most were recommended by a neuropsychologist after some rigorous testing. Categorically dismissing them makes no more sense than assuming they're universally beneficial. Vitamin C supplements remain beneficial to many despite snake oil salesmen posing them as rhinovirus-proof forcefields.

Re: Those writing extensively on note-writing rarely have a serious context of use

#38

Post by jeanchen »

I take extensive notes at meetings because I'm terrible at absorbing information from speeches and discussion. I can maintain attention for about 15 minutes, then I zone out. So in order not to start fidgeting and looking out the window, I write notes. I may or may not look at them again... taking them is enough to make most of it "stick". I don't do any better than colleagues who don't take notes. For me it's just a coping mechanism to keep things from going in one ear and out the other.

Re: Those writing extensively on note-writing rarely have a serious context of use

#39

Post by whatshisface »

henning wrote: post #24

I just need to optimize my life and my brain. Then I will get the job I want, the partner I want, the life I want, and I will truly be happy when I have those things. The emptiness within me will go away. There is a solution to all my problems: work harder and be better. If I just figure out the right notetaking system, I can stop forgetting the important parts of all these books I'm reading (I read 80 last year, but…

That's a great sendup, but it looks different when juxtaposed against the alternatives.

- "I haven't created anything I'm proud of, but that's because my nerve cells aren't folding the proteins that do that. I'm not happy with my life, but I can't change the laws of organic chemistry. I'm watching Netflix right now because of, uhh, alleles."

- "I'm smart and I'm great and everything comes naturally to me. It's lame to try hard because only people who aren't gifted have to. That's why we call them 'tryhards.'"

- "I believe one of the above, but I express it in other words because I'm aware of how bad they sound when set right out there."

Among them all, the one you're satirizing is really the hero.

Re: Those writing extensively on note-writing rarely have a serious context of use

#40

Post by pc86 »

jeanchen wrote: post #38

I take extensive notes at meetings because I'm terrible at absorbing information from speeches and discussion. I can maintain attention for about 15 minutes, then I zone out. So in order not to start fidgeting and looking out the window, I write notes. I may or may not look at them again... taking them is enough to make most of it "stick". I don't do any better than colleagues who don't take notes. For me it's just a…

> taking them is enough to make most of it "stick"

This is the only reason I take notes on anything. The act of physically writing something down (typing works only half as well at best) sticks it into my brain. Hand-writing notes and immediately throwing them away is 10x as useful to me as just listening or reading alone.

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